Definite swing to the right

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Shuggie Hamster
Cub Poster

Posts: 35
No Commercial Interest
Location: Glasgow Scotland

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:23 pm Post subject: Definite swing to the right

First post guys from an extremely new archer ... so be kind! kit used sebastian flute riser, longrod, cartel button Am having problems with my groups always being on the right hand side of the target. I am running out of sight thread trying to get them into the centre and am thinking that the problem is elsewhere. Is this because the spring in my button is too weak and needs to be stiffened? ... or am I missing the bleeding obvious? ta

Club: Glasgow Archers
Bow: Sebastian Flute Riser ... its verrrrrry nice
Sight: Arten Summit II
Arrows: 1916 XX75
Accesories: matching handbag and slingbacks

pondering a Grozer horsebow

Jabberwocky
Bowman

Posts: 275
Club Committee Member
Location: Wolverhampton, UK

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:02 pm Post subject:

Hi Shuggie Hamster First of all welcome to Archers Rest. You have just opened a can of worms with regards to bow tuning and to write out exactly how to do it will take ages. Hopefully there is someone at your club that can help you get your bow setup, otherwise there are plenty of resource on the internet that explain the process one such resource is here: http://www.tenzone.u-net.com/Equipment/index.htm However if all this fails then there could be a few other things to check out. I am assuming that you are shotting freestyle or target recurve and your are right handed if not reverse everything. If your center shot is setup correctly and you have all the pressure you dare on the button then the arrows could be too weak for the bow. Other causes could be: your string alignment being to the left of the sight rather than the right. you could be collapsing your bow arm as you shoot driving the arrows right. A poor release deflecting the string and alignment to the right. An anchor point which is too far left on your face I think that briefly covers everything, good luck, I hope that this helps you solve your problem.

Club: Wolverhampton C of A and Severn Valley Yeoman Foresters
Bow: Samick Masters(target), Mathews Switchback(field)
Sight: Sure Loc
Arrows: X10 (target) ACC Superlite (field)
Accesories: Lots of Beiter Stuff

Mjollnir
Grand Master Bowman

Posts: 2707
Club Committee Member
Location: Cambridge

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:03 pm Post subject:

Button is a fine tuning device, required to pull groups in at distance, as you say you are an extremely new archer, I am guessing you are not shooting at these distances yet, therefore I do not think the button is to blame. this leaves two areas, kit and you. If kit, it is most likely to be arrows with too weak a spine. If you, is you bow are moving as you loose? Are you trying to see where your arrow has gone or are you correctly following through on your shot? Are you twisting your body when you draw and hence one loose springing round? If your right arm (right handed) is over compensation this can also have this effect. You haven't given a lot to go on, all the above are possible and more. I would suggest seaking a coach out for advice. _________________ My shoes are too tight, but it doesn’t matter, because I have forgotten how to dance.

Club: Cambus Archery Society
Bow: SF PRO riser, with SF Carbon limbs
Sight: Sure-Loc Quest-X
Arrows: Easton Navigator FMJ 460 spine
Accesories: Merlin Triad Stabilisers

Shuggie Hamster
Cub Poster

Posts: 35
No Commercial Interest
Location: Glasgow Scotland

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:59 am Post subject:

Update: well the bow has been prodded somewhat over the weekend by much much more experienced people than me (which technically could mean just about everyone!). The nock point was considered to be too high and the button was doing sod all it seems - the spring was WAY too weak. So... Nock point was moved and button was taken apart and a stiffer spring inserted. My release was critiqued and my bow throttling curtailed. Was on a field party over the weekend so no chance to discover any benefits but hopefully will find out on wednesday. _________________ We hate you Eeengleesh types! Dont think we 'ave forgotten Agincourt or Waterloo!

Club: Glasgow Archers
Bow: Sebastian Flute Riser ... its verrrrrry nice
Sight: Arten Summit II
Arrows: 1916 XX75
Accesories: matching handbag and slingbacks

pondering a Grozer horsebow

Hoyt-GM-Girl
Cub Poster

Posts: 5
No Commercial Interest

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:24 am Post subject:

Hi, I had this problem too, what I have found was it was my posture and my head was too square on. Be sure to keep back straight, head in position so that your right eye can just see the target and chin up. Also draw back so your arm is level through your shoulders.

Club: Saints and Sinners
Bow: Hoyt GM
Sight:
Arrows:
Accesories:

woozle
Junior Poster

Posts: 56
No Commercial Interest
Location: hampshire

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:31 am Post subject:

A club member has had this problem of off to the right since ive known her!. Last night we had another go at sorting it out AND she changes eyes at the shot, might be worth looking at ( no pun intended). _________________ I may not hit much but .... I LOOK DAMN GOOD!.

Club: talisman bowmen
Bow: win & win
Sight: bifocal
Arrows: pointy
Accesories:

wife, daughter & grand daughter

Shuggie Hamster
Cub Poster

Posts: 35
No Commercial Interest
Location: Glasgow Scotland

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:34 pm Post subject:

thanks guys but with some 70+ arrows shot off last night I think the problem was the button being too weak. I shot 4 arrow ends at 30yrds and was averaging 34/35 with a fair smattering of 36, a couple of 37 and even an extremely cheeky 38. when I didn't make a mistake groups were easily within a 5 inch diameter side to side. Pretty much happy with my sight settings at 30 now. Not saying I dont have HUGE issues elsewhere (bow throttling and occasional snatching) but my tendency to the right seems to have been button related. Have been promised further tuning sessions. Now on sunday I'll be moving onto 50yrds ... that should be interesting! _________________ We hate you Eeengleesh types! Dont think we 'ave forgotten Agincourt or Waterloo!

Club: Glasgow Archers
Bow: Sebastian Flute Riser ... its verrrrrry nice
Sight: Arten Summit II
Arrows: 1916 XX75
Accesories: matching handbag and slingbacks

pondering a Grozer horsebow

Mjollnir
Grand Master Bowman

Posts: 2707
Club Committee Member
Location: Cambridge

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:43 pm Post subject:

I am more than surprised that a fine tuning device like a button can make that much difference. A device which exists for fine tuning at 70m can make such a difference at 30Yards. You should be able to replace the button's spring with a cut down nail and still be capable of scoring Golds at any distance, so for that to be the cause very much surprises me. Oh well you live and learn. _________________ My shoes are too tight, but it doesn’t matter, because I have forgotten how to dance.

Club: Cambus Archery Society
Bow: SF PRO riser, with SF Carbon limbs
Sight: Sure-Loc Quest-X
Arrows: Easton Navigator FMJ 460 spine
Accesories: Merlin Triad Stabilisers

Shuggie Hamster
Cub Poster

Posts: 35
No Commercial Interest
Location: Glasgow Scotland

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:14 pm Post subject:

what I got told was the button wasn't doing anything, the spring was so light. it may as well have not been there. The change over certainly allowed me to 'unscrew' the sight which was in danger of vanishing behind the riser. Have a guide which discussed plunger symptoms like mine on page 41 ... link here. see what you think. _________________ We hate you Eeengleesh types! Dont think we 'ave forgotten Agincourt or Waterloo!

Club: Glasgow Archers
Bow: Sebastian Flute Riser ... its verrrrrry nice
Sight: Arten Summit II
Arrows: 1916 XX75
Accesories: matching handbag and slingbacks

pondering a Grozer horsebow

Road Runner
Junior Poster

Posts: 90
No Commercial Interest
Location: Doing missionary work in Derby

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:57 pm Post subject: grouping

Try the simple things that dont cost money first.... have you checked your eye dominance ? _________________ Not me Guv..... a big lad did it and ran away

Club: Black Arrow FAC
Bow: Winstar2 with Carbon limbs and I love it
Sight: Failing with age
Arrows: Are they the pointy things?
Accesories: A boat load of enthusiasm and a glove

Shuggie Hamster
Cub Poster

Posts: 35
No Commercial Interest
Location: Glasgow Scotland

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:41 pm Post subject:

...but if the button rebuild did the trick ..... why would i look at eye dominance? Shots are now easily centred and my groups haven't suffered. _________________ We hate you Eeengleesh types! Dont think we 'ave forgotten Agincourt or Waterloo!

Club: Glasgow Archers
Bow: Sebastian Flute Riser ... its verrrrrry nice
Sight: Arten Summit II
Arrows: 1916 XX75
Accesories: matching handbag and slingbacks

pondering a Grozer horsebow

Road Runner
Junior Poster

Posts: 90
No Commercial Interest
Location: Doing missionary work in Derby

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:41 pm Post subject: eye dominance

Shuggie Hamster wrote:

...but if the button rebuild did the trick ..... why would i look at eye dominance? Shots are now easily centred and my groups haven't suffered.

Fine... if this worked go for it... just thought I would mention something that alot of people overlook

_________________
Not me Guv..... a big lad did it and ran away

Club: Black Arrow FAC
Bow: Winstar2 with Carbon limbs and I love it
Sight: Failing with age
Arrows: Are they the pointy things?
Accesories: A boat load of enthusiasm and a glove

Chedawan
Grand Master Bowman

Posts: 1488
Club Committee Member
Location: Derbyshire

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:58 am Post subject:

Mjollnir wrote:

I am more than surprised that a fine tuning device like a button can make that much difference. A device which exists for fine tuning at 70m can make such a difference at 30Yards. You should be able to replace the button's spring with a cut down nail and still be capable of scoring Golds at any distance, so for that to be the cause very much surprises me.

Oh well you live and learn.

Only thing I can think MJ is that if there was virtually no pressure behind the button at all, the tip could potentially retreat in to the barrel almost completely, just leaving the arrow on what would essentially be an enormously wide arrow rest, and free to come off at a variety of angles, with more room on the rest to the right than is normal. This probably wouldn't cause the arrows to all go right, but would make your groups much much larger, and they wouldn't go any further left as the rerst hasn't wifdened in this direction. As a beginner you may not necessarily realise that your group is bigger than your skill level dictates, as you have no prior comparison point, and so this could be seen as arrows floating off to the right.
That's all I can think anyway, because I'm with you a button shouldn't make that much difference at short distances... certainl;y not to fletched arrows anyway.

_________________

:: Sig courtesy of CamdogXIII of EMP ::

Club: Forest Bowmen (Field) Greenwood Archers (Target)
Bow: Winact riser (Yellow Gold) SF Super carbon limbs (Black) 43Lb on the fingers.
Sight: Cartel Activa (Black)... Yes I use a sight! You can stop booing now!
Arrows: Yes, ACC's fletched black and yellow.
Accesories: Many, mostly black and yellow, I try wherever possible to look like an angry wasp.

Also shooting KG Cobra Deluxe, with big wooden arrows, there's also a stave of wood in my loft with a longbow hiding in it, going looking for it soon!