Traditional English Longbow

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Phil
Cub Poster

Posts: 4

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 7:06 am Post subject:

Robin You mentioned Cliff Turpin in your post... I met Cliff a couple of years ago when he was over here in England at Pip Bickerstaffs workshop. He's a first rate guy and makes excellent bows. He told me he was going to look at making longbows from native Australian woods, so it might be worthwhile getting in contact with him .... If you do contact Cliff ..tell him Hi from his mates in England.

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fred
Grand Master Bowman

Posts: 1654
Trader/Retailer
Location: Kidderminster Worcs

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:16 am Post subject:

Mate just found this line Steve Stratton he makes exellent war bows and longbows.At his workshop last week picking a 68ld warbow he makes lami and selfyew Fred

Club: Die Hard Archers
Bow: KG 1
Sight: none
Arrows: matched wooden
Accesories: none

dtalbot
Apprentice Bowman

Posts: 179
No Commercial Interest

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:18 am Post subject:

I'd say go with Pip Bickerstaff as well, his bows are spot on.

Club: Black Arrow, AIFA
Bow: Mongolian horsebow, Spiga Revolution
Sight: Shibuya dual click or eyes!
Arrows: Homemade POC, XX75 Platinum Plus
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Metalhips
Apprentice Bowman

Posts: 100
No Commercial Interest
Location: Leigh NWest

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:21 am Post subject:

Dont think anyones mentioned Roy King Boyer to the Queen and involved with the Mary Rose Trust Lives Fylde Nr Blackpool Not sure if still making long bows used to have waiting list but excelent boyer _________________ Keep Going Ye Olde Bu**er

Club:
Bow: Border Victor Royale
Sight: instinctive
Arrows: Easton Epic 400 28.52
Accesories: Black Sheep Long Stabliser

fred
Grand Master Bowman

Posts: 1654
Trader/Retailer
Location: Kidderminster Worcs

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:11 am Post subject:

If you go up to Blackpool and beat him up SORRY ROY could not resite One of the BEST. Fred

Club: Die Hard Archers
Bow: KG 1
Sight: none
Arrows: matched wooden
Accesories: none

Bushy
Moderator

East Mids Area Rep (NFAS)

Posts: 1898
Club Committee Member
Location: my own little planet

Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:37 pm Post subject:

there is also Richard Head from down south somerset way i think he is meant to make a nice bow but to be honest u cant go wrong with Pip I had an osage bow off him and it was fantastic may it RIP (rest in pieces) _________________ All hail to the Ale

Club: Black Arrow, Forest Bowmen, Merlin Archery Club, University of Derby Archery Club
Bow: KG Kudos, Apex Limbs 47lb on fingers
Sight: depends on levels of alcohol
Arrows: Easton Navigators
Accesories: Triad Stabiliser

Looking for a new Long Bow

I come last
Cub Poster

Posts: 12
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Location: West Australia

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:38 am Post subject:

Glennan_Carnie wrote:

A war bow is usually used to shoot a long/heavy war arrow. Because of this, warbow draw-weights are usually measured at 32" rather than 28".

Notice, in the above descriptions I make no distinctions for bow-material or draw-weight. It is acceptable to have either type of bow as either a self-bow or laminate. There is a common misconception that a war bow must be heavy. It is perfectly acceptable to have a warbow under 50lbs. It is the style of shooting that is significant, not the draw-weight.

Two comments about that.

The first, is that the length of the arrow shot from a warbow, depended more on the draw length used by the archer. As a warbow was (from what I understand) shot using anchor points at either the ear or the chest of an archer, the draw length, and therefore, the length of the arrow, for a warbow, was longer than was needed for the modern style of shooting an English Longbow, as developed and promoted by Horace Ford, the father of modern longbow archery (and, who held the record for the York Round (or the Double York Round), for more than 70 years).

So, whilst someone like me, who shoots 32" arrows (draw length 31", from memory), anchoring relative to the lower jaw, does not shoot with the traditional draw method, I still require 32" arrows. Thus the draw lengths that I require of my bows is 31", at which draw l;ength, I need the draw weights of the bows, to be rated.

I think that you will find that the traditional military arrows, as used with the traditional, heavy warbows, were 36" long, and not 32".

The second, is that it is good to see that someone else, like me, believes that the definition opf a warbow, relates to its functionality, and is not dependent on the draw weight. I have seen assertions, and arguments, that, for a warbow to be regarded as a warbow, it has to have a draw weight of at least 70 or 80lb.

_________________
My arrows tend to land in the green area...

Club: No I don't use a club - I use bows and arrows
Bow: English Longbows
Sight:
Arrows: Port Orford Cedar
Accesories: Not very good archer

I come last
Cub Poster

Posts: 12
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Location: West Australia

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:52 am Post subject:

Robin Hood wrote:

i've found a guy who is part of The Craft Guild Of Traditional Bowyers and Fletchers and he is here in Australia his name is Cliff Turpin his bows are a work of art and there not two pricy $350 australia dollars what a bargin!

You can find a web page about Cliff Turpin, and Turbows, at http://www.freewebs.com/whitecompany/turbow/turbows.html .

I have some of his bows, and have shot with them, in tournaments.

Many bowmakers, who make self bows, or English Longbow style bows, exist in Australia and New Zealand, and I know of their bows being used in longbow target archery.

Various woods are used by the different bowmakers in Australia and New Zealand. A variety of woods is listed on the web page above, for Cliff Turpin, and, in addition to him using yew, two brothers at the Baldivis Archery Club, in Western Australia, make bows using yew and their bows look pretty good, and Kalamunda has a bowmaker, who makes quite good self bows. In New Zealand, from what I understand, the bowmaker who makes bows for Simon Hollman, the New Zealand Longbow Archery Champion, makes bows from yew, and, from tea tree, and other woods. I also understand that some people have found different stands of yew trees at various places in New Zealand, grown for making longbows.

So, in Australia and New Zealand, are, apparently, many competent bowmakers, who make English Longbow style bows.

And that is apart from the bowmakers who make American Flatbow style bows, and there are some very good bowmakers who make those bows, in Australia (I am not sure about in NZ).

_________________
My arrows tend to land in the green area...

Club: No I don't use a club - I use bows and arrows
Bow: English Longbows
Sight:
Arrows: Port Orford Cedar
Accesories: Not very good archer

alanesq
Cub Poster

Posts: 32
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Location: Nottingham, UK

Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 8:05 am Post subject:

I come last wrote:

The second, is that it is good to see that someone else, like me, believes that the definition of a warbow, relates to its functionality, and is not dependent on the draw weight. I have seen assertions, and arguments, that, for a warbow to be regarded as a warbow, it has to have a draw weight of at least 70 or 80lb.

I would disagree with this:

there are two distinct styles of English logbow - Victorian and Medieval

A warbow is a bow which would be suitable for taking to war and it wouldn't have been much use turning up at Agincourt with a 35lb bow
We tend to call any bow over 70lbs a warbow mainly because this is the weight at which you will find you start getting excluded from clubs and shoots etc but a true warbow (i.e. one which could have been used in war) I believe is around 140lb

So I would define a 50lb full compass bow as a "medieval hunting bow"

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Bow: Longbow (Warbow)
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I come last
Cub Poster

Posts: 12
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Location: West Australia

Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 3:14 pm Post subject:

alanesq wrote:

I come last wrote:

Well, we are each entitled to our opinions, whether they be correct or otherwise.

I note that your stated limit of draw weight, is not recognised in the rules of countries, with which I am familiar; whilst recurve bows and compound bows, tend to have limits of draw weight, of 60lbs, I have not seen any limit on the draw weight of longbows.

The issue of whether a warbow is defined as a warbow, solely on the criterion of the draw weight of the bow, is a matter that has been previously disputed, and, will no doubt, be disputed, ad nauseum, into the future.

As I believe have previously stated, I do not profess to be an expert (a drip under pressure), on the subject of archery, so I will leave assertions to others.

In terms of the assertion that warbows would have had draw weights of around 140lb, such assertions, supposedly based on particular items of information relating to the Mary Rose, have been disputed by authorities, who I believe would know better than most of us in these fora.

So, I reiterate, I am no expert, and, what I have said, is my humble opinion.

It is interesting that you would dispute that I believe what I believe, but, I suppose that is your prerogative.

And, as the wise man, Forrest Gump, is oft quoted as saying, "And that is all I have to say about that.".

_________________
My arrows tend to land in the green area...

Club: No I don't use a club - I use bows and arrows
Bow: English Longbows
Sight:
Arrows: Port Orford Cedar
Accesories: Not very good archer

alanesq
Cub Poster

Posts: 32
No Commercial Interest
Location: Nottingham, UK

Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 3:21 pm Post subject:

It wouldnt be much of a forum if everyone just states what they believe and thats the end of that ? 70lbs is the weight limit my field club has for longbows and I believe its the weight limit on longbows in the BLBS The 140lb weight of the Mary Rose bows is debatable and this is why I stated this is the weight I personally believe a true warbow would be I am not saying warbows should be designated as such just by draw weight, but I dont think you can really call a 50lb bow a warbow

Club:
Bow: Longbow (Warbow)
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Arrows:
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nick1346
Cub Poster

Posts: 32
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Location: The New Forest

Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:48 pm Post subject:

Just to throw my two pennies worth in. A warbow as Alan said is broadley speaking one which is suitable to take and use in warfare. The bows on the Mary Rose are the best examples we have of the type employed by English forces, research carried out on the bows indicated almost all of them had a draw of 140lb at 30", that research has never been overturned. Every argument I have ever seen to the contary has been based on hearsay and wishfull thinking at best and incredibley ropey 'tests' which do not stand up to any kind of scrutiny at worst. I challenge anyone who blevieves a warbow could be a 70 or 80 lb bow (when we are talking about English warbows) to try and shoot an English battleshaft the requisite 240yds, it can't be done. _________________ Thats not a bow............

Club:
Bow: 115lb yew bow, 130lb laminate bow
Sight: Good grief, I'm supposed to aim?
Arrows: 1/2" diameter, 32" long English battleshafts
Accesories:

heavybows
Cub Poster

Posts: 19

Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 4:40 am Post subject:

Yes I would get a Steve stratton bow. DIY Archery.

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English Bowman
Cub Poster

Posts: 38
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Location: Portsmouth

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:39 pm Post subject:

I come last wrote:

I think that you will find that the traditional military arrows, as used with the traditional, heavy warbows, were 36" long, and not 32".

Where do you get the idea that a traditional military arrow is 36" long from?
If it's because of the phase "cloth-yard shaft" a cloth yard is not 36" long, otherwise it would just be a yard, plain and simple. It's a rough length based on the amount of cloth that a taylor could pull using an outstretched arm. About 28"
The arrows found on the Mary Rose were between 24" and 32" long, so I think that 32" is a more reasonable assumption than the 36" that I often hear.

Daniel

Club: Fort Purbrook Co Of Bowmen / Raven Field Archers
Bow: Bickerstaffe Osage ELB
Sight:
Arrows: Wooden
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Many

nick1346
Cub Poster

Posts: 32
No Commercial Interest
Location: The New Forest

Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:58 pm Post subject:

English Bowman wrote:

I come last wrote:

I think that you will find that the traditional military arrows, as used with the traditional, heavy warbows, were 36" long, and not 32".

I've got to rarely agree with daniel here. I know nearly all the heavy bowmen in England and the longest draw I have seen is on Nigel Canning at about 34 1/2", Nigel stands at least 6" above the average, maybe more. A 36" draw is ludicrous and not supported by the facts. The MR arrow shafts ranged form about 28" to about 33" long, we do not know there total length becuase we do not have thier heads but if an archer pulls a head back onto his finger then it is feasible that a 28" arrow has a 5 inch head that brings it into the range of the longest shaft. It is not sensible to infer that the standard draw length was 36" because the arrow heads on those shorter shafts would have to have been 8" long, the facts disprove the conjecture. The longer the arrow head the more it is to snapping on impact with a hard surface, the longer the shaft the shorter the head otherwise the further it will not fly well. Anything hanging outside the bow on loose is 'dead weight' and therefore useless with the exeception of fire arrows and that by defintion is not 'draw length' as it hangs outside the bow.

_________________
Thats not a bow............

Club:
Bow: 115lb yew bow, 130lb laminate bow
Sight: Good grief, I'm supposed to aim?
Arrows: 1/2" diameter, 32" long English battleshafts
Accesories: