Do you think bow hunting is humane?

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Liam
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Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:37 pm Post subject: Do you think bow hunting is humane?

Here's a question thats bound to split the general opinions normally shared on here, and I would ask that this remains a debate and not a brawl I personally feel that yes it is humane if not always necesary, yes at one time bowhunting was a requirement and still is in parts of todays world. It should be carried out the correct way though imo, shoot to kill not injure or mame. I'm still split as to wether I would actually do it though, I'd love to go on a 'hunt' and would have no problem taking out small animals such as rabbits, squirells, birds etc (providing I could hit the thing ) not so sure as I could face a bigger beast and actually kill it though, dont know why I feel that way I have included the option 'yes for food' for those who wouldn't bowhunt unless they had to to survive. _________________ Why not?

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segolden
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Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:20 pm Post subject:

In obeying the Laws of Noah, which are supposed to apply to all mankind, one does not make an animal suffer unduly, and this extends to hunting or defense. Hunting simply for the sake of hunting is forbidden, as is the killing of any animal for meat by inhumane methods. Killing in defense of your own or another's life is not only permissible but required, particularly if one knows there is a definite danger beforehand (as examples, a lion has been stalking and killing people in your area, or a gang is plotting murder in a neighboring house). Aside from the legalisms, however, I've hunted for food in the past, and I still keep up a certain amount of "pest control" around my house. Field mice and rats, gophers, the odd rattlesnake, a rabid dog, and two coyotes that managed to dig under the fence, that sort of thing. If that puma shows up again, his pelt is mine, though. Letting something that big with teeth run around snagging dogs off the porch is not my idea of being humane. _________________ "For I have drawn Judah taut and applied [My hand] to Ephraim as to a bow." Zech. 9:13 http://www.freenations.freeuk.com/ http://www.melaniephillips.com/

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Berniethebolt
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Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:01 pm Post subject:

I'd have to vote no to that I think in this day and age we don't and shouldn't need to hunt for food. Sometimes when hunters shoot live game they don't always kill in the 1st go then the animals does suffer. This is just my oppinion Bernie _________________ Don't look down on anyone unless your helping them up. P.S Bernie is short for Bernadette lol

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CaptainBeaky
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Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 6:34 pm Post subject:

I have no objection to bow-hunting for food - I have seen it referred to as "harvesting", which is a good way to put it. As long as the animal is killed humanely, i.e. with the minimum suffering. Personally, I feel that if you aren't prepared to kill it, you shouldn't consider yourself entitled to eat it... _________________ I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered! My life is my own!

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alanesq
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Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 7:02 am Post subject:

There can be all manner of arguments put forward to try and justify why people in the modern developed world need to hunt/kill wild animals (which I would mostly if not all disagree with) But surely the bottom line is that the idea of someone getting pleasure from killing simply cant be seen as a good thing

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Null Point
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Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 10:25 am Post subject:

one shot one kill. if you cant do that, its inhumane. If I hunted it would be with a rifle. _________________ A real friend will come to the Police station the next morning and pay your bail. A true friend will be sitting next to you saying 'Wow, that was fun!'

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Liam
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Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:00 pm Post subject:

alanesq wrote:

There can be all manner of arguments put forward to try and justify why people in the modern developed world need to hunt/kill wild animals (which I would mostly if not all disagree with)

But surely the bottom line is that the idea of someone getting pleasure from killing simply cant be seen as a good thing

I agree with your point made, in the uk we have no real need to cull *sp animals and bowhunting is not allowed anyhow, but in countries where there is a problem and culling is common practice is a bow not as good as a gun if used properly by well trained archers ?

I have no strong feeling either way on the killing of animals, I cant preach against it as I'm happy for Mr Sainsbury and co to get it killed so I can eat it, and I cant preach for it because I dont feel that way enclined either, so I'm happy sitting on the fence respecting the opinions of others who have stronger feelings than I.

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segolden
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Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:12 pm Post subject:

Realizing that this may off-topic by now, are we discussing the inherent "need" of some to hunt and gather their own food, the "thrill" of the hunt itself, or that bowhunting is a humane method of hunting? If the last, assuming that we're trying to confine ourselves to the particular issue instead of emotional moralizing in general, then competence with the weapon and appropriate woodsmanship should determine whether an individual can be humane when hunting with a bow. That is a judgment which lays with the concerned hunter, though certain tests are used by authorities and guides in many countries to ascertain whether a hunter is up to snuff in marksmanship and even fieldcraft. The fact is that it's extremely easy to "blow the shot" when the moment comes, and having a firearm or a bow makes little difference except at what range the game was missed or wounded. Without some experience, it's almost impossible for someone else to tell whether you're competent enough to be humane when hunting, so what others say has little relevance. The interesting difference I've noticed between firearm hunters and those who use a bow is that bowhunters are generally more "woodsy". Stalking with a bow means you're nearly in the game's face when the string is released, whereas a rifle-user may be hundreds of yards from the prey, so you need both fieldcraft and a deep knowledge of your target's behavior and anatomy to succeed. Most hunters are not vicious thrill-seekers, but are rather conservationists at heart, with many years of involvement with preserving and protecting wildlife, and the bowhunters I know are even more so. They'd rather turn down an "iffy" shot and thereby waste thousands of dollars on a backcountry hunt than take a chance on wounding an animal. They spend years studying animal characteristics and months studying the territories they will hunt in by any means necessary. In light of this, I believe bowhunters overall are probably the most humane people on the planet. Myself, I know the uplift that comes with a successful hunt, but it's always been tempered by the fact that I've never killed anything that didn't require it for some reason. Trophy hunting is something I consider narcissism in the extreme for many that do it, and it goes against my own tradition. But perhaps we've taken our current "herd mentality" too far these days? Despite the socialist trend which is trying to suppress the basic instincts and competitiveness of human beings, we ARE predators at nearly every level of our existence. To at least admit this truth is more honest than expounding upon the evils of hunting while shoveling down that bacon buttie or vegan sandwich (yeah, vegetarians kill life too). _________________ "For I have drawn Judah taut and applied [My hand] to Ephraim as to a bow." Zech. 9:13 http://www.freenations.freeuk.com/ http://www.melaniephillips.com/

alanesq
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Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:07 pm Post subject:

segolden wrote:

To at least admit this truth is more honest than expounding upon the evils of hunting while shoveling down that bacon buttie or vegan sandwich (yeah, vegetarians kill life too).

Not really sure what you are getting at there - Whats that got to do with a vegan sandwich ?

Anyway, yes you are right I was a bit off topic. The original question is basically, is it cruel to hunt with a bow?

Well its illegal where I live so I guess that implies it has been agreed here that it is?

So I thought best way to see for myself what its all about is have a look on Youtube
first video I watched was a turkey shot right through the middle - the video ends soon after but its clear the turkey took a good while to die
The others I have watched all seem to cut away straight after the animal is shot (for some reason)
but there are lots of these videos there if anyone is interested in seeing for themselves if its a humane way to dispatch an animal

I certainly wont be asking for my pet to be put down this way !

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segolden
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Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 6:08 pm Post subject:

Heh, guess I should've completed the thought a little better. I was referring to the way some veggies assert that their lifestyle is so morally superior because they attempt to consume little or no animal products. Well and good, and I have nothing against anyone who makes an honest choice to follow such a philosophy, but they do not usually allow for the fact that they still consume what once was living (Are not sprouts and seeds baby plants? Has it not been proved with electromagnetic monitoring that plants feel fear and pain?), the hypocrisy of which was the point I was trying to make. Unless one is a devout advocate of Jainism, I don't see a way around the problem. That an arrow kills by cutting and inducing bleeding, and not by hydrostatic shock (impact-induced trauma) as a bullet does is simple reality. So is smacking a beef cow in the head with a mallet, electrocution of farm hens or, as you brought up Alanesq, finishing off a loved pet with an overdose of drugs. Life lives off death, and all we as humans can do is try to keep it as painless and brief a process as we can. Hunting always involves chance, where even a lion succeeds in downing game only one out of every five times, often leaving a gravely wounded animal to prolonged suffering and death. African wild dogs and American wolves often begin to eat their prey long before it begins to lose consciousness. But we are not beasts in the ordinary sense. That's why it's so important to most hunters to reduce the chance of such things happening. Considering what I've witnessed on the battlefield myself, I'd much rather be hit by an arrow or two than the more modern alternative! The animal I hunt with a bow at least has more chance against me than it might against some other hunter wielding more sophisticated weaponry. _________________ "For I have drawn Judah taut and applied [My hand] to Ephraim as to a bow." Zech. 9:13 http://www.freenations.freeuk.com/ http://www.melaniephillips.com/

alanesq
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Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 6:23 pm Post subject:

I see what you mean Plants dont have a central nervous system or any kind of brain so they can not experience anything (pain or pleasure) I know that nature is pretty cruel and unpleasant but I like to think that humans have the choice and I try not to be Farm cows get a "smack in the head with a mallet" as the idea is this makes them lose consciousness immediately and then they dont have to experience bleeding to death Anyway, I dont want to hijack the thread on animal rights / vegi issues I can see how a good shot with a gun could possibly result in almost instant death but if an arrow relies on bleeding to death then its difficult to see how the animal is not going to suffer ?

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ukarcher
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Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:21 pm Post subject:

I have lived in the country all my life and have hunted with dog and ferret, shotgun and air rifle. I've fished in all types of waters too. I have also had the privilege to bowhunt for whitetail in Arkansas. I have always had the highest respect for and have never wasted a life I have taken. Bowhunting, and especially traditional bowhunting requires you get close enough to the animal to eliminate any error. That said, I have known bowhunters pass on a shot just because it didn't feel right. There is a small element, as in most walks of life that give hunting a bad name, the beer and blast brigade. But the majority of bowhunters are respectful, ethical people who love the countryside and the creatures in it. And for those that think that the UK doesn't require hunting. Now that staghunting has been banned (I didn't agree with that method btw), there is now no management of the deer herds. This will eventually lead to weak herds as they feed themselves to the point that there won't be enough food for them. Keeping the numbers down to a healthy level prevents this happening.

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bowblamer
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:23 pm Post subject:

We are naturaly hunter gatherers and these practices need to be passed down through generations . The way society and ecology are turning out there may well come a day when there isnt any pre packed meat at the store,then what do we do ? The reason indigionous ( hope i spelled that correct ) tribes have survived for so long is because they take pride in passing on these practices and teaching thier youngers to respect what they kill . Even if we try to keep up the knowledge without the practice at least thats something. Which is a little bit what field archery is about, the kill without bloodshed.But i have no problem with people killing to eat .Trophy hunting though i find a bit of a macho ego trip. just a thought.

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Bushy
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:54 pm Post subject:

Oh i knew this would cause some interest. If we are going on personal opinions then I would say there is nothing wrong with bow hunting again it is something that has been done for centuries. Its only since the PC brigade started. FIRST BOW HUNTING it is one thing that I would love to try, THEN FOX HUNTING whats next, fishing, shooting, ARCHERY. _________________ "Rules is Rules - If we didnt have rules, where would we be? Thats right, France! And if we had too many rules where would we be? Germany!" And No I am not Road Runners Son

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bowblamer
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Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 7:38 pm Post subject:

We seem to be lacking in this country in promoting our heritage, and hunting is one of those that seems to be frowned upon. People have hunted with bows for thousands of years and i think if people want to pass on that knowledge to their children i dont see a problem . It's when you here of people killing everything they see , thats when the problems start. I would much rather teach my son to hunt rabbits with a bow ( if it were legal of course) than to teach him to hunt with ferrets ,which seems to be legal. At least with bowhunting you are selecting your prey individually and surveying the potential to make a clean kill .

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