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Robin Hood

Traditional English Longbow

Hey everybody

Dose anyone know of any good Bowyers in england who make the traditional english longbow e.g( one piece of wood, roundish, no flat limbs stuff like that).

I know of one Richard Head

Thanks

James
Liam

This site has a few http://www.bowyersandfletchersguild.org/

These make cracking bows http://www.bickerstaffebows.co.uk/
Robin Hood

thanks for the sites liam
The Craft Guild Of Traditional Bowyers and Fletchers is a good one
thanks
Liam

Glad I could be of assistance
kirk

Archery World in Preston Lanc's make a fine Longbow, they also sell part finished Longbow kits that are great value.

http://www.archeryworld.co.uk/aca...ry_World_Heritage_Collection.html

Check em out.
Robin Hood

thanks for the site kirk very nice bows on there
stovie

If you are looking for quality at a reasonable price, and from a man who knows his stuff, go with Pip Bickerstaff...
Steve B

I am guessing stovie that you mean this lot?
Pip Bickerstaff
Robin Hood

i've found a guy who is part of The Craft Guild Of Traditional Bowyers and Fletchers and he is here in Australia his name is Cliff Turpin his bows are a work of art and there not two pricy $350 australia dollars what a bargin!
stovie

Steve B wrote:
I am guessing stovie that you mean this lot?
Pip Bickerstaff


I do indeed mean this lot....they are the d#*s b@*#"$&'s when it comes to ELBs....My brother-in-law has one and it shoots like a dream...that said, I can still out-shoot him with my bent sticks....
Steve B

Stovie, they say perfect practice makes perfect
Bushy

there is always wib bond of forest bowmen he makes a nice bow I was going tog et one but i ended up getting one off of Keith
Glennan_Carnie

Not all 'traditional English longbows' are the same. We define two major classes of bow:

Victorian:
This is what most people think of when they think 'longbow'. The Victorian bow is the most common longbow and is the one made by most bowyers - especially those outside the UK.
The Victorian bow is the recreational target bow made most famous by Horace Ford. The bow is typically a deeply-stacked D cross-section. The centre of the bow has a Buchanen 'riser' - a thicker section around the handle. This means most of the work is done by the mid-limb through tip. The riser means the bow remains stable in the hand and there is little hand-shock.
The Victorian bow is nearly always fitted with a wool or leather handle, a protective wood- or mother-of-pearl arrow-pass and decorative nocks at the limb-ends.

Medieval or 'war' bow:
This style of bow replicates the bows found on the Mary Rose, and appears to be representative of bows used during the medieval period.
The medieval bow is a 'compass' bow - that is, it bends through the handle and every part of the limb contributes. When viewed from the side at full draw the bow forms a segment of a circle. There is no riser. A medieval bow tends to have an elipsoid or 'galleon' cross-section, with no sharp transition between the belly and the back of the bow.
The medieval bow is rarely fitted with a handle, and the arrow pass is often just a mark scratched into the wood. The limb-tips may be left bare or may be protected by simple horn nocks (rarely decorated).
A war bow is usually used to shoot a long/heavy war arrow. Because of this, warbow draw-weights are usually measured at 32" rather than 28".

Notice, in the above descriptions I make no distinctions for bow-material or draw-weight. It is acceptable to have either type of bow as either a self-bow or laminate. There is a common misconception that a war bow must be heavy. It is perfectly acceptable to have a warbow under 50lbs. It is the style of shooting that is significant, not the draw-weight.

There are very few bowyers making medieval-style bows in the UK. From memory:
Pip Bickerstaffe
Steve Stratton
John Marshall
Chris Boyton
Don Adams (not the US one) - retired now.
Richard Head
Michael Eaton

I hope this informs your decision a little more.
TimS

Excellent posting Mr Carnie
segolden

Now that clears up a lot of questions we novices had, a clear definition that's been needed. Now I can pine for something in specific that I know I can't afford yet.
Phil

Robin
You mentioned Cliff Turpin in your post...
I met Cliff a couple of years ago when he was over here in England at Pip Bickerstaffs workshop. He's a first rate guy and makes excellent bows. He told me he was going to look at making longbows from native Australian woods, so it might be worthwhile getting in contact with him .... If you do contact Cliff ..tell him Hi from his mates in England.
fred

Mate just found this line Steve Stratton he makes exellent war bows and longbows.At his workshop last week picking a 68ld warbow he makes lami and selfyew
Fred
dtalbot

I'd say go with Pip Bickerstaff as well, his bows are spot on.
Metalhips

Dont think anyones mentioned Roy King Boyer to the Queen and involved with the Mary Rose Trust Lives Fylde Nr Blackpool Not sure if still making long bows used to have waiting list but excelent boyer
fred

If you go up to Blackpool and beat him up SORRY ROY could not resite One of the BEST.
Fred
Bushy

there is also Richard Head from down south somerset way i think he is meant to make a nice bow but to be honest u cant go wrong with Pip I had an osage bow off him and it was fantastic may it RIP (rest in pieces)
I come last

Glennan_Carnie wrote:


A war bow is usually used to shoot a long/heavy war arrow.  Because of this, warbow draw-weights are usually measured at 32" rather than 28".    

Notice, in the above descriptions I make no distinctions for bow-material or draw-weight.  It is acceptable to have either type of bow as either a self-bow or laminate.  There is a common misconception that a war bow must be heavy.  It is perfectly acceptable to have a warbow under 50lbs.  It is the style of shooting that is significant, not the draw-weight.



Two comments about that.

The first, is that the length of the arrow shot from a warbow, depended more on the draw length used by the archer. As a warbow was (from what I understand) shot using anchor points at either the ear or the chest of an archer, the draw length, and therefore, the length of the arrow, for a warbow, was longer than was needed for the modern style of shooting an English Longbow, as developed and promoted by Horace Ford, the father of modern longbow archery (and, who held the record for the York Round (or the Double York Round), for more than 70 years).

So, whilst someone like me, who shoots 32" arrows (draw length 31", from memory), anchoring relative to the lower jaw, does not shoot with the traditional draw method, I still require 32" arrows. Thus the draw lengths that I require of my bows is 31", at which draw l;ength, I need the draw weights of the bows, to be rated.

I think that you will find that the traditional military arrows, as used with the traditional, heavy warbows, were 36" long, and not 32".

The second, is that it is good to see that someone else, like me, believes that the definition opf a warbow, relates to its functionality, and is not dependent on the draw weight. I have seen assertions, and arguments, that, for a warbow to be regarded as a warbow, it has to have a draw weight of at least 70 or 80lb.
I come last

Robin Hood wrote:
i've found a guy who is part of The Craft Guild Of Traditional Bowyers and Fletchers and he is here in Australia his name is Cliff Turpin his bows are a work of art and there not two pricy $350 australia dollars what a bargin!


You can find a web page about Cliff Turpin, and Turbows, at http://www.freewebs.com/whitecompany/turbow/turbows.html .

I have some of his bows, and have shot with them, in tournaments.

Many bowmakers, who make self bows, or English Longbow style bows, exist in Australia and New Zealand, and I know of their bows being used in longbow target archery.

Various woods are used by the different bowmakers in Australia and New Zealand. A variety of woods is listed on the web page above, for Cliff Turpin, and, in addition to him using yew, two brothers at the Baldivis Archery Club, in Western Australia, make bows using yew and their bows look pretty good, and Kalamunda has a bowmaker, who makes quite good self bows. In New Zealand, from what I understand, the bowmaker who makes bows for Simon Hollman, the New Zealand Longbow Archery Champion, makes bows from yew, and, from tea tree, and other woods. I also understand that some people have found different stands of yew trees at various places in New Zealand, grown for making longbows.

So, in Australia and New Zealand, are, apparently, many competent bowmakers, who make English Longbow style bows.

And that is apart from the bowmakers who make American Flatbow style bows, and there are some very good bowmakers who make those bows, in Australia (I am not sure about in NZ).
alanesq

I come last wrote:

The second, is that it is good to see that someone else, like me, believes that the definition of a warbow, relates to its functionality, and is not dependent on the draw weight. I have seen assertions, and arguments, that, for a warbow to be regarded as a warbow, it has to have a draw weight of at least 70 or 80lb.


I would disagree with this:

there are two distinct styles of English logbow - Victorian and Medieval

A warbow is a bow which would be suitable for taking to war and it  wouldn't have been much use turning up at Agincourt with a 35lb bow
We tend to call any bow over 70lbs a warbow mainly because this is the weight at which you will find you start getting excluded from clubs and shoots etc but a true warbow (i.e. one which could have been used in war) I believe is around 140lb

So I would  define a 50lb full compass bow as a "medieval hunting bow"
I come last

alanesq wrote:
I come last wrote:

The second, is that it is good to see that someone else, like me, believes that the definition of a warbow, relates to its functionality, and is not dependent on the draw weight. I have seen assertions, and arguments, that, for a warbow to be regarded as a warbow, it has to have a draw weight of at least 70 or 80lb.


I would disagree with this:

there are two distinct styles of English logbow - Victorian and Medieval

A warbow is a bow which would be suitable for taking to war and it  wouldn't have been much use turning up at Agincourt with a 35lb bow
We tend to call any bow over 70lbs a warbow mainly because this is the weight at which you will find you start getting excluded from clubs and shoots etc but a true warbow (i.e. one which could have been used in war) I believe is around 140lb

So I would  define a 50lb full compass bow as a "medieval hunting bow"


Well, we are each entitled to our opinions, whether they be correct or otherwise.

I note that your stated limit of draw weight, is not recognised in the rules of countries, with which I am familiar; whilst recurve bows and compound bows, tend to have limits of draw weight, of 60lbs, I have not seen any limit on the draw weight of longbows.

The issue of whether a warbow is defined as a warbow, solely on the criterion of the draw weight of the bow, is a matter that has been previously disputed, and, will no doubt, be disputed, ad nauseum, into the future.

As I believe have previously stated, I do not profess to be an expert (a drip under pressure), on the subject of archery, so I will leave assertions to others.

In terms of the assertion that warbows would have had draw weights of around 140lb, such assertions, supposedly based on particular items of information relating to the Mary Rose, have been disputed by authorities, who I believe would know better than most of us in these fora.

So, I reiterate, I am no expert, and, what I have said, is my humble opinion.

It is interesting that you would dispute that I believe what I believe, but, I suppose that is your prerogative.

And, as the wise man,  Forrest Gump, is oft quoted as saying, "And that is all I have to say about that.".
alanesq

It wouldnt be much of a forum if everyone just states what they believe and thats the end of that ?

70lbs is the weight limit my field club has for longbows and I believe its the weight limit on longbows in the BLBS

The 140lb weight of the Mary Rose bows is debatable and this is why I stated this is the weight I personally believe a true warbow would be

I am not saying warbows should be designated as such just by draw weight, but I dont think you can really call a 50lb bow a warbow
nick1346

Just to throw my two pennies worth in. A warbow as Alan said is broadley speaking one which is suitable to take and use in warfare. The bows on the Mary Rose are the best examples we have of the type employed by English forces, research carried out on the bows indicated almost all of them had a draw of 140lb at 30", that research has never been overturned. Every argument I have ever seen to the contary has been based on hearsay and wishfull thinking at best and incredibley ropey 'tests' which do not stand up to any kind of scrutiny at worst.  I challenge anyone who blevieves a warbow could be a 70 or 80 lb bow (when we are talking about English warbows) to try and shoot an English battleshaft the requisite 240yds, it can't be done.
heavybows

Yes I would get a Steve stratton bow. DIY Archery.
English Bowman

I come last wrote:


I think that you will find that the traditional military arrows, as used with the traditional, heavy warbows, were 36" long, and not 32".


Where do you get the idea that a traditional military arrow is 36" long from?
If it's because of the phase "cloth-yard shaft" a cloth yard is not 36" long, otherwise it would just be a yard, plain and simple. It's a rough length based on the amount of cloth that a taylor could pull using an outstretched arm. About 28"
The arrows found on the Mary Rose were between 24" and 32" long, so I think that 32" is a more reasonable assumption than the 36" that I often hear.

Daniel
nick1346

English Bowman wrote:
I come last wrote:


I think that you will find that the traditional military arrows, as used with the traditional, heavy warbows, were 36" long, and not 32".


Where do you get the idea that a traditional military arrow is 36" long from?
If it's because of the phase "cloth-yard shaft" a cloth yard is not 36" long, otherwise it would just be a yard, plain and simple. It's a rough length based on the amount of cloth that a taylor could pull using an outstretched arm. About 28"
The arrows found on the Mary Rose were between 24" and 32" long, so I think that 32" is a more reasonable assumption than the 36" that I often hear.

Daniel


I've got to rarely agree with daniel here. I know nearly all the heavy bowmen in England and the longest draw I  have seen is on Nigel Canning at about 34 1/2", Nigel stands at least 6" above the average, maybe more. A 36" draw is ludicrous and not supported by the facts. The MR arrow shafts ranged form about 28" to about 33" long, we do not know there total length becuase we do not have thier heads but if an archer pulls a head back onto his finger then it is feasible that a 28" arrow has a 5 inch head that brings it into the range of the longest shaft. It is not sensible to infer that the standard draw length was 36" because the arrow heads on those shorter shafts would have to have been 8" long, the facts disprove the conjecture. The longer the arrow head the more it is to snapping on impact with a hard surface, the longer the shaft the shorter the head otherwise the further it will not fly well. Anything hanging outside the bow on loose is 'dead weight' and therefore useless with the exeception of fire arrows and that by defintion is not 'draw length' as it hangs outside the bow.
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