| Archive for Archers Rest Archers rest is a new place for archers of all kinds to come and have a natter about anything archery or anything else, please feel free to browse the forums and join in the fun, go on sign up today, you know you want to :-) |
| TimS |
Traditional Archery / LongbowThere seems some, but limited input, in this area of the sport (which, of course, happens to be my interest).What about a forum specifically for this area ? |
||
| segolden |
Excellent idea, though I'd hope that it doesn't turn into an argument over what defines "traditional", as it has in some other forums.  Gets to be annoying when people work up a tizzy over wood or manmade risers, sights or barebow, rests or shelf, etc. In the US, traditional is pretty much defined as anything but a compound, probably different in the Isles. 
|
||
| TimS |
Personally, I can 'live with' all the versions you mention segolden - except sights (I am fiercely anti any of that including the elastic band 'cheat', if you claim to be traditional).
Personally I am an ELB enthusiast but can live with the rest of you (and the modern stuff as long as I don't have to do it). My club is ELB only- and we are less than serious, as I think our website demonstrates |
||
| segolden |
 I obey stated rules at all times, but I believe in stepping up to the line as closely as possible without cheating.  Sounds like you have your territory staked out pretty well, and I respect that. I used to one of those stuffy-fussy American Cival War re-inactors, and I was authentic down to change in my pocket and my spectacles. Would be a little silly to step up to the line with a Hoyt when you're surrounded by ELB's.  And vice versa, eh?
|
||
| Robin Hood |
Yes we need a forum for traditional archery for it's self including the ELB, horsebows, recurve and various other that are of traditional making or standards.
Defining traditional could be before 19th century, we have a grade area for Only trad bow before the 19th centuary but not many people shoot it, i'm the only one so far in my area. i don't know about your guys rule but we cant shoot trad strings of hemp or intestine safty rules, it has to be the dacron strings |
||
| segolden |
Well, RH, there's not much one can do about modern manufacturing processes, or we'd be back using fish-bladder glues and Spanish Yew (good luck finding those  ). Can't get away from some things. Point is I think we can allow a certain leeway in this category, as long as we agree on what particular technological items don't give an unfair advantage over a bare-bow's potential accuracy. About the only thing I've seen that does that is a sighting system, as Tim points out. Otherwise, as long as it doesn't involve gears, wheels or mechanical releases, it should be fair to everybody. That's my opinion anyway. 
|
||
| Liam |
Something to think about here I think. It was mentioned about having specific forums in AR's early days but decided to leave it untill the forums began to grow, maybe now the time has come.
I shall a think about this one and how best to implement it. |
||
| Robin Hood |
sights are not all what u think they r the early longbowers and Romans use to tie a piece of string on the bow somewhere, where i dont know and would use it for different distances when fighting and practicing and the old 45 degree angle distances. | ||
| segolden |
Heh, was referring to the modern conventional pins and scopes myself, but I'll let you and Tim debate that. Considering the archaeological record, I wouldn't be surprised at Joe Cro-Magnon having used a few carved bones for aiming purposes. Be interesting if somebody found an old ELB with some kind of system attached, might throw the whole argument into the bin. Frankly, if Da Vinci could produce a sniper rifle, I doubt if human ingenuity couldn't have produced something beforehand. The Ancient Greeks were working on pneumatic-powered crossbow-artillery using pistons and gearboxes!
See, guys, this is a gentlemanly example of the quicksand you can step into when these issues come up. Just a kindly warning.
|
||
| Robin Hood |
|
||
| Liam |
Been having a think about this and as said previously, different corners of the world have different takes on what Traditional archery is, so we need to generalise a little, so far we have come up with the following suggestions Traditional Longbow Recurve Compound Accessories (arrows, sights, release aids etc) or Steve's suggestion of- Traditional Longbow/Recurve (unsighted) Sighted bows or Dawns suggestion of having it based on wether it shoots wooden or has a sight? We could go on forever listing every style of bow so need to keep it pretty general. Basically we are looking at replacing the equipment area of the forums with the new catagories, if anyone has any suggestions of how best to this please drop in your thoughts. |
||
| segolden |
[quote="Liam"]
Personally, I vote for the second option, not too specialized, not too generalized. Dawn's idea is actually the best solution, but I'm afraid of how it has flown over here with some web-based purists. Feuding is one of the reasons I'm here in the first place, got tired of the nonsense.
|
||
| Haywain |
Personally I would hate for this to turn into one of those places where arguments start over whether you are a trad archer or not because of your equipment.
I don't think the number of posts would justify such a dramatic change at this moment in time, but if I had to choose I would go with Dawns of Wooden arrows, none wooden arrows and sights. Nice and simple. You're not defining a traditional bow, you are only splitting the groupings based on what arrows they use and whether they use sights. Now all we need is an argument over whether bamboo is a wood or a grass 
|
||
| kirk |
The way things are going over here in the UK would put Robin in the primitive class, as for Traditional i would put anything without wheels, cams and a sight in that category, some of the turkish Grozer bows are more technologically advanced than some compounds i've seen around.
I shoot a Take down AFB (American longbow) and an alloy riser recurve, with a button elevated rest and hybrid carbon limbs, but the bow is still a recurve in the traditional sense of the word. This discussion as Seagolden pointed out has been raging in the USA for a while now, and has kicked up even more since the advent of the DAS Kinetic bow hit the market. The DAS is the most advanced hunter recurve out there, but it still holds firm to it's traditional roots. It has everything but wheels. Check it out http://kineticbows.com/ One day i'll have me one of these baby's, i'm savin hard as we speak
|
||
| segolden |
The DAS is arguably the most advanced and efficient hunting bow out there, and it's still a recurve, no doubt about that. And boy do you pay for the privilege! That's one of two reasons I've not considered it, the other being the fact that it's got more adjustment points than a backstreet !@#$%^&*!, and I'll leave those to more knowledgeable souls. I'm doing good to find that gap in my upper teeth for an anchor point, much less figuring out knobs and screws and what they do. As long as I don't do something to get me kicked off the range, I'm happy.
|
||
| Liam |
Re: Traditional Archery / Longbow
Back to the original point, Tim we are struggling with ideas on how to best implement this idea without splitting the forums too much and raising debates on what is or isnt traditional, could you clarify what you mean by a Traditional Archery / Longbow forum, I fear if we go with a Traditional forum we are going to get into messy debates about what is traditional, maybe it would be better to drop the word Traditional and just go with 3 forums for Longbow/afb/horse bow Recurve - including sights stabalisation etc Compound - including sights release aids stabalisation etc and then an accessories section for common factors such as arrows and general tools required in the sport. For such topics that discuss the history of Traditional archery I would prefer not to split this from a general archery forum as I feel a divide may start between members and members who shoot modern bows may not stumble accross very interesting material about traditional archery, I for one know nothing about trad archery and shoot a very modern bow, but this doesnt mean I dont have an interest in traditional archery, if it were not included in the forums I use I may not learn anything, just my thoughts on this at the moment, I would appreciate your feedback on this Tim, and anyone else for that matter. |
||
| Liam |
Had a bit more of a think about this and how about -
Title: Longbow/afb/horse bow Description: This is the place to discuss anything 'wooden' be it Longbow, AFB, Horsebow etc, tell us about your set up share any tips you may have or ask if you need any advice on this subject. Title: Recurve Description: Have a recurve bow? This is the forum for any recurve related matters, include any sight and stabalisation issues here, again this is a Q&A section. Title: Compound Description: For those of us who still need training wheels, this area is for the compound bow and its components and accessories such as sights, release aids stabalisation etc . Tilte: Arrows and other Accessories Description: Discuss arrows in here, be it how to make your own woodies or how to fine tune the latest carbons, fletching jigs, bowpresses and any other archery equipment you may have in your shed. Do you reckon this fits? It would replace the current equipment section, the general archery section would remain as is. I think this would be acceptable to the vast majority and avoid any conflicts. |
||
| TimS |
Liam, the sort of split you suggest seems eminently sensible to me.
Hadn't expected to fire off such a debate, I just thought a location for 'traditional' might generate some more input from that area of the sport. |
||
| Liam |
To be honest I never imagined it to this complex either, but as we have seen different people have different interpritations of traditional archery. | ||
| jaselpool |
I agree I think this would be the best way to go if you need to split the threads 
|
||
| Liam |
Right then, the next step would be to appoint a moderator/s to each forum, if anyone is interested in moderating any of the following forums please state your interest here.
Longbow/AFB/Horsebow forum Recurve forum Compound forum Arrows And Other Accessories forum If kirk & Trykonxl would like to continue modding in the equipment section please state which of the above you feel best suited to. Anyone else interested in modderating will require a good knowledge of the subject and a good amount of common sence is all thats required. |
||
| segolden |
Wonderful solution, folks! I knew Liam would come up with a sensible outlook upon the whole situation. I, too, wonder why all this was so controversial, but the angst on some websites over definitions has often gotten out of control. To face the issue now and learn from it is better than to wrap everything in a tangle of resentment later. Believe me, this discussion has been much more civilized and logical than the nonsense I've seen in other forums! You're all to be commended.
|
||
| Dawn |
If Kirk or Trykonxl or anyone else for that matter would like to take on the recurve mod post thats great but if no one does then I dont mind putting my name forward.
I do know a bit about recurves as I shoot one, machined handle, laminate wood/glass limbs, the Marksman KG1, with carbon arrows. I also have shot wooden handle take down recurve and one piece recurve, with both wood and ally arrows. I know very little about using sights as I have never had the desire to use them. I know a little about gap shooting and have seen string walking used very sucessfully, although I have not tried it. Anyone out there who is more experienced than me please say so I will happily delete this post
|
||
| segolden |
Now THAT'S a good notion, go get 'em girl!
|
||
| Liam |
Thank you kindly Dawn we have one offer for the recurve forum, if neither Kirk or trykon wish to continue I may well ask you to assist
|
||
| Steve B |
Liam, if need be I can help out where ever, have a great knowledgr on most with the excepion of trad, only know a little Need a hand let me know.
|
||
| kirk |
I don't mind modding trad recurve, iv'e shot most styles, but never got my head around the release aid. I'm currently shooting barebow and AFB. | ||
| segolden |
 Okay, ignorant colonial time: What's "AFB"? 
|
||
| Dawn |
Its American Flat Bow here
|
||
| kirk |
Segolden, it's a Kota Prairie Nomad Take Down American Longbow, from your side of the pond.
The flatbow reference is to the profile of the limbs, being flat as opposed to D section as English longbow. If i shoot it at a comp i would have to shoot it as a recurve as it is a takedown, so i shoot allys and call it barebow. confusing i know.
|
||
| Dawn |
Yes Kirk very confusing
I have an american flat bow that is a one piece, I shoot it with wooden arrows in the AFB style
Do like yours though Kirk, its a very pretty bow
|
||
| segolden |
Sometimes the mind just doesn't want to cooperate!
|
||
| Liam |
New forum areas now set up
|
||
| Haywain |
To us Brits a Longbow is one of those things used at famous battles such as Crecy and Agincourt. The bow that made the English archer the most feared and possibly dispised person on the medieval battle field. Therefore anything from over the pond, which has a flat cross section and an arrow rest cut out of the side (as shot by Howard Hill / Byron Ferguson etc etc) is to us an American Flat Bow. but to you guys it's a Longbow. We just make the distinction so as not to get the two confused. We speak the same language and we still have problems - lol
|
||
| segolden |
Sometimes, when you see an acronym used in a place you're not expecting it, it just doesn't compute. Strange, I'd seen "AFB" used on other sites, but I blanked, ARGH! Getting old, Haywain, I don't recommend it.
|
||
| fred |
LONGBOWS AND THINGSI make longbows and arrows but cannot hit the side of a barn with one.It is the most inacurate weapon ever used I have a great respect for anyone how can use then.Recurve For Ever. Fred
Hits Um Sum Times |
||
| Robin Hood |
gotta be good mate great skill involved which unfortantly i do not have but still great fun |