| Archive for Archers Rest Archers rest is a new place for archers of all kinds to come and have a natter about anything archery or anything else, please feel free to browse the forums and join in the fun, go on sign up today, you know you want to :-) |
| Chedawan |
Some questions about making my first set of "Woods"Hiya,hoping someone can see their way clear to helping me out with answering a few questions? As you may know if you've spotted the classified's recently, I've just bought a KG Cobra (deluxe I believe) flat bow from Bushy, which is my first wooden, or 'proper' if you prefer, bow. With it Bushy has supplied me with a few arrows, but I rather fancy having a go at making my own, just because I can and I feel I ought to really. Now my knowledge of arrows (having thus far in my archery career owned a Compound until it was stolen, and now a pretty much what you would class as target recurve) stretches to carbons and aluminiums, and my working knowledge of them runs as far as watching Christine Gascoigne run her fingers along the easton spine selection chart, mumble an incantation, ask me what colour fletchings I would like, whereupon I salivate for a short period of time over the toys on display, before being presented with some lovely new arrows to try out on their range. My knowledge of wooden arrows stretches to knowing they exist. Now though I've read what I can find around the net, and the pages dedicated to arrows in the Bowyer's bible Vol. 1, and have a better idea, and I'm not looking to be spoon fed here, but I do have a couple of questions, if anyone can answer them, or point me to an article I can read I'd appreciate it. I'm looking at ordering enough gear to make up a couple of dozen arrows to play with as my 'first go' as it were. From what I've read I think Port Orford Ceder sounds like the way to go, but spining them seems to be a mine field. I've looked at Quicks, Bowsports and Merlin's online shops, for the components required. Now the arrows I've got are 5/16" but I'm not sure what spine weight is on them (Bushy?) the sites sell the spine weights as 30-35lb, 35-40lb, 40-45lb and so on, which seemed fairly straight forward, until I found this chart. Now the bow is marked up at 42#@28 and my draw length is approx. 30 inches, so do I presume from this I require the 55-60lb 11/32" spine? Also do I need anything extra for making them, other than points, shafts, feathers (fletchings - I might wait a bit before I start using raw feathers straight off the bird), and nocks? I have a fletching jig, and believe the only new tool I will need is a a tapering tool? other than that I believe I will need some araldite or other epoxy glue for the points, but will my normal Saunders arrow mate do for the fletchings and nocks, or do I require something different? Lastly, and not really having any influence on the process, I'm just curious, but why left wing feathers? Many thanks in advance for any help, Adam - hopes he doesn't look too stupid with this post, but wants to get it right first time, every time. [edit:] two other things that spring to mind... will I need to varnish, or finish the arrows in any way? and does anyone have any particular advice on pile weight? |
||
| Dawn |
Hi Chedawan Making your own wooden arrows is a great passtime There is some info and pics here of the ones I made last year http://archersrest.myfreeforum.or...ght=wooden+arrows&start=0 Also take a look at my blog, I kept a bit of a diary about it all Regards supplies, try asking Jase at the Longbow Shop, or Fred ar J.F.Tibbetts, links to both of them in the left portal If you tell them your bow weight and draw length they will advise you on the best spine, fletching length, pile weight etc. When I make wooden arrows I liket to use a glue called HMG for the nocks and fletchings, not everywhere stocks it but its very good if you can get it, otherwise ask when you buy your other components as they may well have something just as good
|
||
| CaptainBeaky |
Hi Adam
Welcome to the wonderful world of arrow-making! POC is a good choice - Merlin also have some Austrian Fir shafts which are supposed to be very good - very straight-grained, and about 10% lighter than POC for the same spine. The spine charts for wooden arrows also (AFAIK) assume you will use 100-grain points - going heavier will decrease the apparent spine, and vice versa. There is another good spine chart on the Border Bows website, which is worth a look, as it also gives spines for different point weights. Left wing feathers - they could also be right wing, but they must all be the same: the individual pins on each feather are asymmetric, and will cause the arrow to spin, even if set straight. Therefore you need to use the same wing feathers, whether right or left. (Does that make sense?) Buy the best taper-cutting tool you can afford - the metal ones work much better than the plastic ones. Most important - be prepared for a few dud ones  You will learn just as much from these as from the perfect ones...
Dinner calls: must get the lasagne out of the oven - more later. P |
||
| jaselpool |
Re: Some questions about making my first set of "Woods&Hi there Adam
Excellent choice in making some 'woodies' after your first set I guarentee you'll be hooked! OK I'll try and do my best here for you: 1. Have a think about using Sitka Spruce. The wood is more durable than POC and if you are thinking of field archery you will need arrows that take knocks  POC is OK but a liittle light and they break a lot easier. I stopped stocking POC in my shop now (apart from one spine range left) and only sell Sitka.
2. If you are drawing 30" on a bow marked for 28" you will indeed need spine in the 55-60lb range in 11/32. That is assuming you'll be using 125gn points. Anything lighter will stiffen your arrows further. This is a starting point as you need to factor in shooting style quickness of the bow etc. You should be looking at actually matching the arrows within +/- 1lb and also within 10gn of weight for a truly matched set of arrows. 3. Points, Shafts, Araldite for points and NPV Saunders for feathers and nocks (the glue I stock as well). The plastic taper tools are fine to start with and cheap. The more you get into arrow making the more upgrading to stuff you will want to do but you don't need to invest in expensive kit to begin with. 4. LW feathers and RW feathers are down to personal preference really. There is nothing to state one is better than the other as far as I know. The US and Australia seem to prefer RW whereas LW seems to be a UK preference. If you are thinking of helically fletchng your arrows you will need a specific LW or RW jig. As already pointed out never mix LW and RW on the same arrow as you sent if off on some bizzare flight paths!! Check out my site THE LONGBOW SHOP if you like and I'll be more than happy to walk you through anything and help in any way I can mate - welcome to the wonderful world of fletching!
Jase
|
||
| Chedawan |
Thanks guys, makes a lot more sense now. Fred also sent me a pm about it, and is sorting me out with gear for my first go.
After a bit of thought I've decided to go for making one dozen, instead of two, in case I do something fundamentally wrong, I won't have wasted twice as much stuff, I can then see how they shoot, learn from the myriad of mistakes I will be sure to make, and then get another lot and start again. Think the bits I still don't quite understand, I will once I've 'got hands on' as it were. Jase the Sitka Spruce sounds interesting, and once I've been bitten by the bug, I'll be sure to drop you a line and give it a go... I tend to get quite into these sorts of things once I've started, so no doubt I'll be pestering you all for tips for weeks to come. Also going to try putting decals on them like Dawn's, which look fantastic. I designed some for my target arrows a fair while ago now that (I think) look pretty good, and never got around to ordering them, so I feel a little tweaking should convert them for purpose. One question, before applying them, do you add a layer of varnish, or otherwise seal the wood? Or just straight on to the shaft? I read and re-read your blog about doing them but couldn't make my mind up on that one. Also, what sort of varnish do you use, just normal clear wood varnish a la B&Q or something more specialised? Cheers once again to everyone who's taken the time to offer help and advice... and just to warn you I've got some lemonwood seasoning at the moment, so no doubt when it's ready to be worked into a bow in the summer, I'll be full of questions (at least until I slip with a spokeshave or something equally dumb.) Adam. |
||
| Dawn |
Hi Cedawan I put the decals straigh onto the bare shaft then varished the whole lot, I used waterslide decal paper but I believe some use sticky paper labels and get just as good a finish I use just normal household varnish and put 6 or 7 very thin coats on, if you put it on very thin it dries quite quickly so it doesn't take as long as you might think, I also rub the shafts down lightly with wire wool between each coat, the final coat then usually comes out nice and smooth and shiny Good luck and post us some pictures of your work |
||
| Ratfighter |
Sorry to butt in on someone else's thread but after receiving a spangly wooden recurve for christmas, I too am in the market for some wooden arrows.
Obviously to build on my skills base I would be looking to have a go myself. So a little advice would be very welcome. The bow is 47lb @ 28" I draw 28" on a compound but haven't checked my drawlength on my new bow. At the moment I am spending more time in the green than in the gold, so robust would be good. Over to you Jase 
|
||
| Blackheart |
Polyeurathane (sp?) varnish in a spray can seems to work well - it is pretty easy to get a nice thin coat without runs, and much easier to tidy up afterwards as well.... I do the wire wool trick as well, although I give the shafts a quick rub down before varnishing and then a quick wipe to remove the dust. Mind you, I can't seem to get the spine weight right for my Border Super Reiver (50# @ 28" - drawing to 30")... |
||
| jaselpool |
Hi Ratty - I'm honoured you'd ask mate! If you are drawing 28" on your recurve then you'd need to be looking at 50/55 spine range. To get closer you'd need to do a little testing within that range and see what's best for you. Also point weight and feather length will alter dynamic spine - have someone measure your draw length and I can give you a more accurate range
Give me a shout if I can help you at all anytime
J |
||
| Bushy |
Now as the bow in question is one I have some experience of you have got to take into consideration that the bow is not shot off the shelf but is shot round the bow like it were a longbow and for this reason that arrows that you were given the red and black ones are 5/16 and are either 35-40's or 40-45 which is what i think they are and to be honest I would go and get a proper draw weight check done before purchasing some arrows to go with it but I owuld be inclined to go the spine lower as it has got to come round the bow adn also a 100g field point which should give you some speed i never shot 125g off of it.
I would agree with Jase on the Sitka spruce although I was under the belief that they were slgihtly physically heavier than POC but trying to get decent POC at the minute is a nightmare I have gone onto Alpine fir i think they are this time for my longbow and finding them really good but what might suit one bow might not suit another |
||
| jaselpool |
Ahhh I stand corrected. I thought the recurve would be an 'off the shelf' shooter hence the higher spine weight I suggested. If it's shot off the knuckle rather than centre shot then the lower spine 35/40 would be best depending on your actual draw length
I'm probably going to be a Rose City dealer soon as a lot of people are still asking me for POC so I'll be stocking their premium shafts in all spine ranges in the coming months
J |
||
| Chedawan |
Right, slight update:
Have posted my cheque to Fred a little while back (which I'm hoping has arrived) so should be getting my arrow building components soon I'd imagine. In the meantime, I've been given some bits by a guy in the club to have a go with, and after a couple of days off last week I have produced twelve finished arrows! Pointed, nocked, crested, fletched and varnished (not necessarily in that order) Haven't had time to try them out yet, which will no doubt show up quite clearly if and where I've gone wrong in the process - but I'm pleased with them thus far, they spin nicely on my palm, and I can't see that they're not straight, and the cresting is better than I'd hoped for. I've just taken some photos which I'll post up as soon as I find the cable to connect the camera to the computer (so expect any time in the next four years then) |
||
| Chedawan |
Right here goes... rather than spend an eternity looking for the cable thatr came with it... anyone who has ever built their own computer, and accumulated a 'bits box' which soon expands (somewhat like a gas) until it is actually a 'bits guest bedroom', and then to the point that every drawer in the house has LCD displays, IDE cables and other fun items in it, will fully understand what I mean. I have used my wire cutters, a few similar cables found lying around, and my trusty soldering iron, to make another. Sad I know, I can wire anything to anything else within reason, but gluing feathers to wood petrified me in case something went wrong!
Anyhow, after a bit of fiddling, here are my arrows (and I'll be the first to say my photography isn't up to much): Firstly, these are the cresting decals I used, individually numbered for arrow identification purposes, which will I acknowledge cause issues when one breaks or gets lost. I can't get a good shot of them on the arrows, so here's a low res pic of what I actually used: 
And the completed arrows from a few different angles: [img]http://s16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/Chedawan/?action=view¤t=DSCF0129.jpg[/img] 
Loved every minute of making them, and am itching to get going with my next set! |
||
| JimN |
Of course, strictly speaking, the truth is in the shooting but they look absolutely bloomin fantastic, the colour scheme is brilliant. I keep on promising myself I make some wraps but I never seem to get round to it, I think you have just given me the incentive I needed. What paper did you use and have you varnished over the top of them? I have a link to some transfer paper that's been recommended but am open to other ideas if you used different.
|
||
| Chedawan |
Thanks, glad you like the colours... as you say, just got to see how they shoot... I can't claim any credit for the idea for the wraps, I used exactly the same method Dawn discussed in her arrow making walkthrough, using waterslide decals from here I think Dawn said she used a specialist label printing software program to print hers, but I just used good ol' photoshop to do mine, you then have to apply 2-3 coats of an acrylic varnish to stop the ink running when you immerse them in water. I checked arrows for straightness, then gently wire wooled them, cleared the dust, and applied the decals to the bare shaft, left them for about two hours (the guide says 24, but I'm fairly impatient, and also didn't know when my next day off would be - next time, I'll leave them longer, as I slightly wrinkled one - number 8 in fact - and had to redo it), and then varnished straight over them. It's fiddly, but as long as you're careful, I was quite surprised at how sturdy they proved to be. I also after a tentative start, found it to be better to use a steel ruler, and my fletching jig to mark a straight line on my shafts to start the top of the decal so they are in the same place in relation to my cock fletch on each arrow. I also had them overlap by about 2mm so that there's only one end that can start to peel up, rather than two, if I'd had them join exactly end to end. Hope that helps, and as I say, full plaudits to Dawn, if she hadn't inspired me, mine wouldn't have come out anywhere near as well as they have done. |
||
| Dawn |
Chedawan they are brilliant I love the colours and they look really profesional, glad the notes I put on about the waterslide decals were useful If it is of interest to anyone, when I number a dozen arrows I do it as follows - 4 x number ones 3 x number twos 2 x number threes 3 x not numbered In NFAS its usually number ones that get lost or broken, but doing it this way you can use non numbers for any that you run out of But it doesn't matter how you number them as long as the rest of the group know which order you shot them, I just find it works for me to do it this way Hope they shoot well for you |
||
| CaptainBeaky |
Nice job! | ||
| Steve B |
 that Chedawan is a really great job mate
|
||
| jaselpool |
Nicely done mate they look great! I'd pop a blob of glue on the leading edge of your fletchings as well to stop A: them possibly digging into your hand and B: them lifting up if they hit the grass and bury themselves.
Jase |
||
| Dawn |
Yes Jase the blob of glue on the end |
||
| Onewackybow |
Awesome job there Chedda's... awesome 
|
||
| Bushy |
Arrows look good mate think I might be calling on you to help me with how to do cresting like that I never managed it and dawn has tried to teach me a couple fo times | ||
| Chedawan |
No worries mate, whenever you want to do a set, give me a shout and I'll get you set up doing them. The trick is to not start swearing at them the first time they go wrong I think, as there were a couple of occasions I nearly fell out with them, but stuck with it, are you going to make a design up, or do you want me to have a bash? Also, thanks for all the kind comments everyone, means a lot, and thanks for all your help and advice. Am off to do some 'glue blobbing' as we speak. |
||
| Bushy |
Cheers for that Chedawan would be cool to get some sets customised crestings but knowing me it would be a case of swear lots then laptop or other computer related item would go through the nearest window whether it be open or not | ||
| Chedawan |
Go on then... give me an idea of what you would like on them and I'll give it a whirl, presume you want your name, Black Arrow FAC, do you want them numbering? Any graphics like I have the wasps? And any particular colours? Oh, and if you're putting them on 11/32's you'd better let me measure one, as mine are sized for 5/16. |
||
| Bushy |
LOL dont worry about it right now mate anyway what days you got off this week go and give them a whirl | ||
| Chedawan |
Well if you do want me to, just give me the info, and I'll get to work on it... not promising same day service, but I'll get there. Not sure about a day off this week, going to try for weds or thurs. |
||
| richard d |
I read some of the arrow making tips a couple of months ago before starting to make my own (and sons) and found lots of invalluable advice and the sad part is I havent stopped making them since.
[img]  [/img]
there were a dozen of each but some got broken or lost thought I'd have a go at some points as well [img]  [/img]
|
||
| Dawn |
<font style="background-color: #ecf8e7" color="#800080">Nice selection richard d <font style="background-color: #ecf8e7" color="#800080">And great points too <font style="background-color: #ecf8e7" color="#800080">It is addictive isn't it |
||
| Chedawan |
If the proof's in the shooting, then I can confirm that they shoot nicely. Shot around the wood this morning, and they fly beautifully from my bow... None lost, none damaged... just need to put in the practice now! |
