Primitive archers

broad-head · Primitive archers

Would just like to know if there are any archers out there making and using primitive equipment, I have met a few in the UK. But we appear to be few and far between.

JimN

I don't know anything about you broad-head so I may be telling you things you already know, but the NFAS have recently introduced a new 'Traditional' class and there seems to be a lot of people who are getting 'back to nature' and making their own kit.

Not sure who on AR is included in this though

Liam

I stand to be corrected if wrong but I beleive the new NFAS class is called 'Primative' all equipment must be of a home made nature, this style of Archery is certainly growing in the UK, cant say much about it though as my knowledge on this particular subject is very poor.

JimN

Nick

Our member MarkHill who happens to be BWFAC chairman was the proposer at the NFAS AGM for the primitive class section which he is very happy to get passed, so I am assuming he knows something about it, (especially if you read the very long and windy thread on the NFAS forum about it) i managed to get him to sign on to this forum and i believe he has posted once to say hi, i will see if i cant get him on here to pass on some info If you like?
there are a couple of our club members who make there own kit completely bows etc, and believe me i am trying to get them on here.

Liam

If you could please Nick, I'm sure he will prove to be a valuable source of information for us, aswell as the enjoyment he will get out of AR of course.

Steve B

tell him nick that even a guy from Australia is awaiting his words of wisom. cause that would be down right interesting I recon

Nick

Ok thanks Peter i feel stupid now for telling you about mark when you know him better than I do

, I should have checked my emails before coming on here

Just incase any one else is wondering what i am on about broad-head is one of our club members who makes his own bows etc and probably knows just as much as Mark about primitive archery.

Steve B

maybe we cna have both of them spill the beans....

the tillering is the hard process isnt it stovie ?

broad-head

Nick
It’s the problem with using these silly user names, perhaps I should change it, there would be less confusion.
For BWFAC members Broad-head = Peter Broad

Nick

JimN

I've put a topic on the NFAS web board asking when the new primitive class will be featured on the website (and hence made 'official').

Mark Hill

What do people want to know about the new NFAS Primitive Class?

At some point NFAS may get around to publishing the fact that a new shooting style exists, and what the relevant rules are! In the mean time, here goes my understanding! As far as I recollect, this is the approved wording.

"Primitive Class
The bow must be constructed of natural materials only, preferably by the archer themselves. Combinations of wood, bamboo, horn, bone, sinew, rawhide backing, natural fabric backing, natural cable backing and other natural materials etc are allowed. Though natural glues and finishes are encouraged, synthetic glues and finishes may be used. Bow design and limb shape may be of any type (self, laminated, straight, pyramid, reflexed, deflexed, recurved etc,) but should be based upon a primitive or ancient bow type. If challenged the archer should be able to prove that their bow is based upon an ancient or primitive bow type. An ancient bow design is one used 5 hundred or more years ago, including bows that are many thousands of years old. A primitive bow may be one used today by low tech pre-industrial tribes and peoples in the far reaches of the world, though of course these may also date back thousands of years. The bow must be free of stabilisers, sights, or other features unless these can be proved to be part of the original primitive bow design.

Arrows must be of natural materials and feather fletched. Though the use of self-made shafts is encouraged commercially available natural shafts may be used. Nocks to be self nocks or reinforced with natural materials. “Stick-on” taper fit nocks may not be used. Commercial metal piles may be used. Synthetic finishes and glues may be used in arrow construction.

No applied mark or other sight aid may be used on the bow limbs or handle. No form of arrow-rest may be attached to the side of the bow. Arrows must be shot off the hand.

Though the use of natural string materials is encouraged, synthetic materials are permitted. The bowstring may be of different colours as long as they run continuously and evenly throughout the string's length, but the centre serving, if used, shall be of one colour. One nocking point is permitted. String silencers are permitted but no other knots or attachments in addition to the serving which could be of use for sighting or location purposes is allowed.

One anchor point must be maintained throughout the shoot. No draw-checks of any kind are permitted. No archer may refer to any memoranda which could in any manner be a means of improving his or her score.

Any form of hand loose may be used including Mediterranean, two finger, pinch, thumb ring etc. No form of mechanical release aid is permitted. Finger protection, such as shooting gloves, tabs, or thumb rings may be used."

I was really chuffed that we got this voted in. I think the fact that half a dozen or so of us turned up with our kit really helped. The good quality of the bows and arrows on display helped satisfy the genuine safety concerns some had. The passion and dedication of the primitive archers (and perhaps the fact that we were the only armed people there!!) swung the vote our way, just.

Now all we need is for people to get out there, make kit, and shoot it so perhaps next years we can squabble about the rules at the AGM just like all the other shooting styles do!

I am happy to asnwer any questions people may have, though I make no claim to be any form of expert. I am just the guy who was stupid enough to put the proposal forward!

All the best,
Mark. (though perhaps I should call myself broadbum?)

Nick

Thanks Mark your a gent

(you would not be implying something of Peter would you

0

Mark Hill

I would not imply anything at all about Peter, but about myself it is just pure coincidence that my trousers don't fit after Xmas.

Dawn

They must have shrunk then

Nick

DROID

Hello, Peter-Broad-Head-Shed-Peter. Im interested in primitive archery and would like to find out more if you can spare the time.

Thanks

.:DROID:.
Ex-Student Andy (BWFAC)

Mark Hill

About the best resource for finding out more on primitive archery would be to buy the three volumes of The Bowyers Bible.
There are also some very good forums on the web.
Try PaleoPlanet at http://b16.ezboard.com/bpaleoplanet69529 or Primitive Archer at http://www.primitivearcher.com/pages/community.html
We are holding a Primtive Archery event this spring, graciously hosted by Rob and Mel at Holmbush. This will be an NFAS event, though it may be possible to get day membership. This is due to happen over the weekend of the 7th/8th April, with people turning up perhaps on the Friday before and leaving on the Monday or any period in between that suits them. You will need to bring camping gear, beers and sausages etc as well as anything you have made to show to others, anything you want to make, anything you want to shoot.
The format will be failry loose, as this has worked well on the other events we have held. We do intend to have a Panda-bow-in. For this people will make a bamboo panda bow and a couple of simple bamboo arrows and then shoot the course with this kit. A small prize (possibly very very small) will be given for the winning Panda-bow archer. We will have an area roped off for using edged tools, and a central bonfire. Just about everything else will be up to those who come.
So what can people do apart from make a panda bow and have fun shooting it?
A string making demo is a certainty. Some of the more dedicated primitive will no doubt be carrying on the attempt to make a nettle bow string, with the less dedicated using linen or perhpas even the evil dacron! If you want to learn how to make a string, bring string making materials.
If you bring along the gear (axe, chopping blokc, stave) you can chop a bow out with an axe. It is possible but not guaranteed that you will be able to buy a whitewood stave at the event to practice on.
If you want to make arrows, bring shafts (get out and cut hazel now!) feathers etc.
Someone, no doubt David Sinfield, will be chucking atlatl darts around so I guess it is quite possible that you may end up making one of those.
David and I are organising this event, and we'd appreciate any feedback you can give us on what sort of things people would look for in a primitive archery meet.

Nick

Sounds great mark, i take it thats another weekend you wont be at the club then

Liam

Mark Hill

Nope! But maybe I'll see you there?

Nick

stovie

Hi Folks. Not sure if what I produce would fit into the "primitive" category, but everything is hand tillered, selfbows, stringed with linen, occasionally backed with linen, and i produce my own self-nocked arrows. Here's a couple below

This is an ash selfbow I produced for a friend...named "old Crooked"...the bow that is...

and here is handle detail of a couple of Oak bows I use regularly...they were made from kiln dried timber. One is 40# the other 50# both drawn to 28"

if anyone is serious about making their own kit I will second the TBB books, they are full of sound info...

Liam

Fantastic pics Stovie (Steve, make sure they get on the website

), I'm not a primitive or traditional archer but love to see some of the equipment used for these catagories.

Nick

Theres something about proper kit that is just right

DROID

found a good link on making a bow. guy has some other pages on making primitive arrows and glass heads as well

http://www.thebettaworks.com/deja/post.asp?id=130

DROID

sounds like a fantastic weekend mark, im defintely up for that, anything else you could tell us? also I have a question

Im probably really showing my ignorance here so be gentle...

wood should be seasoned for about a year for bow making purposes, wouldnt it make more sense to make the bow, and then let it season unstrung for a year?

stovie

It is not unheard of to rough out a stave in order to season it quicker. The less wood involved the sooner it will dry. but, there is always a but, it can result in the stave drying too quickly and the wood splitting. Also the character of the tiller may be very different from what you had planned. There is always the worry that you might take too much wood off in the first place.

i have just cut some Yew, which I immediately painted the ends with gloss primer, this stops the ends drying quicker than the remainder of the wood, and prevents splitting.

i have left the bark on for now, but may well remove it in a couple of months. The plan is to produce an ELB towards the end of the year.

DROID

Thanks

Liam

Stovie, I would love to see this bow as you are making it ala kirks knives style

Nick

Mark Hill

Droid,
Some woods need carefull slow drying. Woods like Ash beneft from quicker drying and do not have the same tendancy to check or split.
With slow drying woods like yew and hawthorn, holly (not heard of a holly bow yet) you would leave the bark on and paint the ends of the stave and let the wood dry slowly and evenly. One rule of thumb is one year per inch of wood, though this is a bit slow for my taste.
With whitewoods like ash, birch, beech, hazel you can take the bark off and split and it can be dry quite quickly.
With a whitewood a bow can be roughed out to near bow dimensions and left to dry. The fact that more surface is exposed and the mass reduced speeds up the process. You can make up a drying box heated with some electric light bulbs to speed this process. There is a chance that thr wood will warp a little, but if the bow has been made over size you can usually make allowances for this in the final workup.
You do not want to start stressing the wood at all until it is fully dry, to about 10% moisture. A too moist bow will result in set and poor performance.
An ash cut now, bark removed carefully to the outer wood surface and split into quarters a stave about 3 inches across and put in your loft (or leant up somewhere in the house in the warm if you are allowed) may be just about about ready for use in April.

stovie

Liam

Nick

yep will second that we would be very interested in seeing that

stovie

Cut and pasted from BCUK...apologies to those who have seen it before...

Seemed a shame to waste the remaining half of the oak stave I had left so decided to tiller into a cross-breed. It has some of the attributes of a flat bow, but the length of an English longbow.

Started by roughing out the basic shape. 2" wide at the handle gradually tapering to 1/2" at nocks. Depth at handle only 1" (so added a riser to the belly) again tapering to 1/2" at nocks. A jig saw to remove most of wood, then spokeshave to reduce to my lines.

This is the basic shape

Handle glued in place with resin-based adhesive and held in place with cordage.

This is the basic shape completed

Detail of one limb

At this stage the bow is effectively floor tillered. From now on its softly softly with the spoke shave set very low and a rasp (ignore the footwear; pond cleaning, or so my dear wife thought

)

I cut nocks in in order to use the tillering string (fatter and stronger than a normal string so it don't break)

After a few hours of shaving and tillering I ended up with this

The secret is to look, see stiff points, take a little wood off the belly/sides at that point and look again. There is no quick fix, just eye and shave. Very therapeutic.

Next the handle was shaped and the fades blended into the belly

Several grades of sandpaper are used, and between each sanding the wood is wiped down with a damp cloth. This brings the grain up (fluffy-like) which is then sanded by the next grade of paper. In the end it produces a lovely finish.

This is the bow braced. It draws around 55# @ 28", which will fall to around 50# when I have finished sanding and shot it at the weekend.

And at full draw out roving

And Jr came too...

And that's all there is to it.

Nick

Excellent, he makes it look so easy, im willing to bet there is a fair few hours work there though

thanks stovie

stovie

It normally takes a week of evenings plus a weekend start to finish.

Below is an example of a linen string, served with linen thread

This is the linen-backed flatbow which features in the sunset picture...

and handle detail...leather grip with cord finish

and me checking it out before I gave it away

anyway, enough pictures, but it gives you an idea of what I do....

Dawn

WOW thats brilliant

Steve B

Stovie, that aint nearly enough pics mate, what you do is is bloody great stuff and if you dont mind I want to include ALL those pics on our web Gallery...

Keep up the great work and more pictures please sir

Mark Hill

How do I include a picture in a post? I'd like to include a few pics of bows etc but don't know how.

Dawn

I have done this from photo bucket

http://photobucket.com/
you load the photos on to pgoto bucket then upload them onto the forum

If you want to go and register on photo bucket I will look out my instructions and come back

kirk

Hi Mark,
The easiest way is sign up on photobucket, you just click and paste from one site to another easy.

Check it out http://photobucket.com/

Dawn

These are the instructions Steve gave me when I asked that question

And it works

First off you have to be able to have a picture hosted at a server maybe somewhere Like Photobucket www.photobucket.com they are a free hosting site that allows you to store online your pictures so they can be linked to here or any other forum.

when you have done that you will on photobucket when you have uploaded some pictures that there are three options:

a URL link for email amd Immediate Messages
a HTML Tag for websites and blogs
a IMG Code Forums and Boards

you then go to post reply and write what you want then you use the IMG Code info which looks like this
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o52/bowmech2004/walhalla3.jpg

but it will have [img] at the start and [/img] at the end of it.

Nick

sorry does no one else use the attach file function to display there pics then???

Dawn

Dont know about that one

Blond again

Nick

next time you post click on the attach file link at the bottom of the text box it then opens a small window, select browse which looks at your hard drive, select picture and click upload, jobs a goodun

Dawn

Is this right

Oh yes thats magic

Thanks Nick your a star

Nick

Thats ok just seemed easier than all that faffing about you seemed to be doing

Dawn

It is

This place is great isn't it

Steve B

The only issue with this nick and dawn is that we are filling up Liams space on the server by doing it this way and that means that an additional cost will be incurred eventually by Liam for more space to host this forum. That is why IMHO the photobucket option is better, apart from that on Photo bucket you can manage all your pics in albums

Just a thought to think about folks....

Nick

stovie

Dawn

Thanks Steve, from what you say the best way would be to use the photo bucket as per your orignal instrutions

I will do it that way then, no problems with it

It doesn't take long anyway

Mark Hill

A few bows and stuff. Not sure if they will turn up on screen.

Dawn

They turned up on my screen fine thanks Mark

Steve B

Mark thanks for that pictorial of the bows you have and use. As somebody that enjoys looking at the traditional/ primitave aspects of our sport it great to see, over here in Australia the "historical" section has just started and is not used by many so far. So what you have shown is a real treat to me

Once again do you have a problem if I include those on our web site ?
In here they tend to get lost sooner rather than later and the web site is a great place to showcase that gear.

Mark Hill

No problem if you want to show the images in a non-profit way.

Steve B

It is non profit Mark, it is the archers rest web site that we have, our monthly newsletter resides there as well as many photo galliers from here.

Go have a look and to see the news letter you will need to register again over there.

archers rest web site

stovie

Thought you might like to add this little study. It was taken on a day when I was fixing up the tipi. It shows the AFB and ELB both made from oak...

Mark Hill

Stovie,
I see a tree jumped out in front of you! That happens a lot to me too!
Seriously though, nice picture and nice kit.

stovie

Liam