New Prototype

segolden · New Prototype

As some of you may know from posts waaaaaaaaaaaaaay back in AR history, I've been a fan of Monster Bows for some time, and am awaiting one of their "Phoenix" models on order. Seems the company (which is basically a Mom-and Pop outfit in Michigan) had a spat with a parts supplier a while back, which is now resolved and bows are being shipped as I speak, so I'm hoping to have my own toy to play with in the next couple of months. Meantime, they've been working on a prototype bow, a longer more target-oriented model designated the "Dragon". I'm listing the site here in case anyone is interested, though it's probably going to be around summer before this particular bow hits the market. Otherwise, cruise the website and pick up a little about the people and products there, as they have an interesting alternative to the normal wheelie-bows.

http://monsterbows.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3409

Joe(thebow)M

Interesting bow Segolden! Until you mentioned there being no wheels on it I did not even realize that feature until I took a second look at those pictures. That is interesting and from the results I read of this bow, it sounds very accurate!

kathyg

rather fancy the design myself, joe. steve's been hooked on the thing since last april, and you can read about his impressions here:

http://archersrest.myfreeforum.org/about1996.html

the interesting part about these bows, to me anyway, is how they can be set up for a child's draw weight, and then readjusted to heavy hunting draw-weights for an adult. it reminds me of my long-gone browning pistols, which could be broken down without many tools. i love simplicity, and i might consider one if steve's turns out to be as good as it seems to be.

kirk

Nice, very nice indeed, looks like it would make a good fingershooters bow too, i love the fact it has no cams n wheels or cables running through the riser like the oneida.

Mjollnir

Interested, are you kidding???? Where the hell do I sign!!!!!

Especially with the pound being so strong against the dollar

Onewackybow

Is it supplied with a small child who is an expert in "Cats Cradle" to string it?

Mjollnir

Onewackybow

My heart belongs to recurve bows... must resist the darkside...

Mjollnir

Mjollnir

Thank You very much Selgolden

I have just finished reading the review of this bow, and now I really really really want one.

Tis true what they say what you don't know can't hurt you!!

Onewackybow

Stll resisiting the temptation to try field archery without using my current setup is tough...

Slightly off topic but I'm thinking the Samick SLB is where I'll be heading next. Reasonably cheap. Might start an new thread and cavas opinion...

Dear Father Christmas,

I've been a good boy all year, honest (please don't listen to Bernie) and would like you to bring me a Samick SLB and some fine wooden arrows.

Yours in hope,

Onewackybow

segolden

Not trying to "lure" anybody off of traditional bows, Onewackybow, just like to show people there are alternatives to the conventional technology.

I shoot recurve, longbow, and have looked for a compound that acts like them. This baby does that and more, without offending my need for a little nostalgia. But that's my choice, and I don't expect anyone else to conform. My whole shtick IS nonconformity.

Indeed, both Phoenix and the prototype Dragon are good for finger-shooters, but not for the normal reasons. True, the Dragon has less of a string angle when fully drawn, so one would expect it to have less finger pinch, but remember we're still talking about an incredibly short bow. The Phoenix is even shorter, and yet has no detectable pinch, having shot it myself and talked to others who have. The primary reason for this is the power curve of the draw, no valleys or sharp peaks or spongy stops, just an ultra-smooth progression to maximum pull, then a smooth decrease to an absolute wall/stop. I had no problem holding at full draw for several minutes without any kind of mechanical release. A light tab worked fine, and a string loop/BT release did as well. The Dragon's main advantage over the Phoenix will be the same as any long-risered bow has over its shorter hunting brothers, a bit less "wobble" in precision shooting. Your choice.

Onewackybow

segolden

Heh, maybe "leering" would've been more appropriate. I do that a lot when inside an archery shop (or book store).

Onewackybow

We like leering, leering is good.

Mjollnir

Don't worry selgolden, as long as you keep finding gems like that, you lure away to your hearts content.

kathyg

that's my hubby, the rotten influence (not) lol.

segolden

Thought this would whet a few appetites:

http://monsterbows.com/forums/vie...542114d66e7a5d3ef8a30118e7a#25631

(You might have to scroll to the top of the page to see the pics.)

kirk

That is one sweet looking bow, i would love to see one in the flesh.
Wonder how they feel to draw?

segolden

Here's the draw-force power curve of the Phoenix, set at 56#:

http://archersrest.myfreeforum.or...amp;filter=&page=9&order=

Most high-speed compounds (Bowtech and several others) have a much sharper rise at the beginning of the curve, with a prolonged peak or plateau at the top, then a sharp drop off until stopping. The longer the plateau, the higher the velocity imparted to the arrow, but this can be rough on the archer who is more sensitive to strain. Different cams smooth the curve out at peak while sacrificing velocity, but still have a detectable peak.

The Phoenix and Prototype Dragon don't sacrifice speed for smoothness because the lever-action has a long, rounded power curve, with no detectable peaking point. In addition, the "wall" at full-draw is absolute, with no stretching or overtravel. All this results in a smooth draw and little or no strain. More important to velocity fans, the bow is able to use a wider weight/spine range of arrows than normal, from ultra-light carbons to heavy woods and alloys. Frankly, it's the easiest bow I've ever shot, bar none.

Here's someone else's impressions:

http://monsterbows.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3434

kirk

Ok i'm sold, i like it I like it a lot, but what about finger shooting.

I have had problems in the past with acute angle strings causing finger pinch, i know it has a pretty low holding weight but couldn't this cause problems with string torque?

I have found you need a real clean loose with low holding weights, and with a higher weight to aid release comes finger pinch.

Have you shot one of these Steve and how did it feel on you fingers?

segolden

Yup, shot it with both a light tab and a thumb-release, no pinch with the tab at all. Torque doesn't seem to be an issue as the limbs act upon the string the same way as a longbow, absolutely straight travel at release. I couldn't see a problem even though the bow was set at 80% letoff. It actually made it easier for me to concentrate on form, though I didn't try shooting at any angle other than vertically. Since the letoff is virtually infinitely adjustable, if there was noticeable torque, running it back should cure it.

Weird part is, this is the first mechanical bow I've seen that could be practical as an "instinctive" shooter. There's at least one guy shooting a Phoenix as barebow, off the shelf with a glove, and has collected a nice black bear this year.

kirk

Now i'm really sold, shooting off the shelf.

I like the sound of that, think i will be making enquiries.

segolden

Personally, Kirk, I think it works best with a simple arrow rest/plunger, as the thing's so short that shooting at extreme angles just isn't necessary most of the time. Other than that, little else is needed unless you're really into precision accuracy. Just have patience if you order one; the Dragon's not even available for purchase yet, and probably won't be until summer. The Phoenix is just now starting to get up to speed in production, so it's still like ordering a custom handmade wood bow as far as the wait goes. It ain't Mathews or PSE, just a small-time operation.

kirk

Hey and i'm a lefty too, that may cause a problem.

if ya want the best it's worth the wait.

segolden

It's available in a lefthanded version, no worry there.

segolden

Nice setups and pics:

http://monsterbows.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3312

Mjollnir

Nice pictures Segolden, but I am now hooked on the idea of one of their Dragon bows

segolden

Ah, not trying to talk you out of a Dragon, bro, just giving people a look at the basics of the mechanism.

CaptainBeaky

I also have to confess to being quite taken with the idea of a Dragon

kirk

Steve man pack it in postin all these lurrrvely pics.
I really really really want one.
I have a Mathews Solocam,so i have one foot in the darkside, but I love the idea of a "nocam" compound, wonder if i could shoot it in Hunting Tackle with a set of fat woodies

segolden

Now that's an idea! I actually planned on fiddling with wood (be quiet out there) and a button plunger later on, but I want to get familiar with tuning and adjusting the bow first. Depends how accurate I am with the setup as is.

segolden

Thought people interested in the Dragon or Phoenix should see the latest update:

http://monsterbows.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3478

The Belcher connection and the use of wood/glass traditional tech is extremely ironic here. Makes the bows that much more intriguing, eh?

Blackheart

kirk

OH dear, i love the look of them limbs.

They are definitely aiming at the trad recurve shootists, what with snake skin, clear glass to show the woods and horn nocks.

It wouldn't surprise me if they didn't have the riser dipped in wood effect coating, or some exotic inlays in the riser like the old American Eagle compounds.

I'm saving now, next year i fancy one o them beauties.

segolden

Modified my order, to make sure that the limbs are undipped to bring out the wood and tips. Should look snazzy in contrast to the rest of the bow (all-black). Now, if I can just find those mammoth-tusk grips I wanted...

kirk

Sounds cool Steve. Can't wait to see it

Are the inboard limbs black like the riser?

It would look real cool with a black and white string, as for the grip plates you could use antler, it looks very nice when filed and polished. do it in the shed though as it gives off a real bad stink when you take the dremel to it.

segolden

Yup, inboards will be black, so that the maker's decal will stand out. Nice contrast against the wood, I think. As for the grip panels, the reason I'm looking for mammoth ivory is the crystalline glint the fossilized material has, almost a polished granite look. The alternative would be a stained India stag the grip maker has used, just depends on what I can arrange. Black and white string sounds cool, will talk to them about that, thanks Kirk!

segolden

Here's a pic just released of the prototype Dragon (no coating/color, riser in the white), being tested by MBLLC's CEO Mike Schuch.

kirk

Thanks for the update Steve,
String angle still looks a bit acute for a finger slinger like myself.

What's the deal Steve, real high let off to stop the pinch?

What is the length of the new bow?

Cheers Kirk

segolden

The Dragon's riser is about 4.5 inches longer than the Phoenix, but the limbs have been in flux, so current total length is around 42". Total weight without accessories is 4-pounds. You're correct, letoff determines comfort, and the finger-shooters run their Phoenix bows between 75-85%, with some around 90. The new manual shows how to adjust everything with a couple of allen wrenches, which is one BIG reason I want the bow. With shops two hours' drive away, I don't want something I need massive investments in tools just to tune. That's why I eventually sold my Switchback XT.

kathyg

I found this review on the website this morning, thought Steve would want others to see it:

http://bowreports.com/

Go to the Compound section and click on the Phoenix review.

kirk

Thanks Kathy.
Great link, love those close up pics of the Monster.

kathyg

Good heavens, Kirk, where've you been? Sewn up in your own upholstery?

kirk

LOL...

Been real busy workin, time for some shootin now..

segolden

A nice illustration of how easy the Phoenix/Dragon is to work on, plus some good pics:

http://monsterbows.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3756