Heavy Vs. Light Stuff

segolden · Heavy Vs. Light Stuff

Was perusing the reports of Dr. Ashby today at TradGang.Com:

http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=24

These, and the recent articles in Traditional Bowhunting Magazine regarding his work, reminded me of the heavy war arrows used in the English Longbows of the past. Their performance in the field was very similar to the arrows in the above reports, and I can see some merit in such types of arrows in the hunting field. The question I have is whether anyone has some experience with these heavy/extreme FOC arrows in bows other than the traditional sort. I'm thinking of using them in my long-awaited Phoenix, for some of the varmints we get occasionally around here. I figure that a tapered/footed shaft of something like hickory/ash would do the trick. Any ideas?

geoffretired

Am I right, the Phoenix is a Monster bows variation on the Oneida?
I had an Oneida Black Eagle and converted it to a camless shoot through version. It was not so well made as the Monster bows but it proved how quiet the bow can be.
One aspect of the Lever/lever design, is that there is a lot of moving mass in the power stroke. The outboards travel a long way, compared to a typical compound. I think this gives the bow a slow start to the power stroke but with a lot of follow through. They seem to suit heavier arrows for that reason. I think I'm right in saying that in tests against other conventional compounds, the Oneidas are slower when light arrows are shot, but as the arrows are changed for heavier and heavier ones, the Oneidas catch up and eventually overtake.

segolden

Well, something like that, though the Phoenix design is much closer to the defunct Firebrand Discovery than the Oneida. Essentially, Monster Bows started out hot-rodding Oneida bows, and was trying along the way to talk the older company's execs into a series of modifications that would bring out the potential of the design. That eventually caused a parting, particularly when their engineering had ultimately produced a bow that differed so radically from the original that it was virtually a new breed of cat altogether. The result is the Phoenix and the upcoming Dragon.

Your exposition of the lever-bows' inherent power-transfer characteristics is exactly what I'd like to take advantage of. I suspect I''m going to have to work out a combination that works by trial and error, as most people are using arrows of around 375-450 grs., a little light for my taste. That's why I wanted to see if anyone has experience with heavy arrows in their non-traditional/compound rigs, to get some ideas before I spend the funds. Thanks for that very clear explanation, hope there's more out there.

geoffretired

Having used the Oneida, as it was built, and after the mods, there is no doubt there is room for improvement in some aspects of the design. The ones that strike me as being outdated(in the sense that there are much better options available) are the hinges and the limb pockets.
Using the Firebrand rig gets rid of the timing cable which was another aspect that needed improving.

fred

JUST GOT INTO THIS I have just finish a set of arrows for a 110-pound war bow 6 are 1/2" ash shafts 7-1/2" hand cut fletchings hand made heads.The other 6 are tapered down to3/8" both ends all are re-enforced with horn nock I think those are big arrows.
Fred

Onewackybow

fred

To Onewackybow My light ARROWS--
5/6" SHAFTS
Tapered both ends-Nock end 9/32"
PILE END--7/16"
PILE---20g
FLETCHINGS---2" HAND MADE
You can chose nocks --self re-enforced with horn or normal plastic nocks
I that to numerical for you

Onewackybow

fred

To Onewackybow--MY NORMAL ARROWS I SHOOT

SHAFTS--5/16" BARRELED BOTH ENDS TO 9/32" POC
NOCKS --PLASTIC
SPINE----38lbs
FLETCHINGS--Hand cut 4" parr.
PILE--------- 45gr hand made

Fred
I can go on for ever and real p**s you off I have got nothing to do a the moment but bug you lot

segolden

Appreciate anything you've got to say, Fred! The voice of experience is always helpful to we amateurs.