Grub screws

Mjollnir · Grub screws

Why is it archery manufacturers insist on making their grub screws out of chewing gum?

I have gone through 3 buttons this year.

First one I had had since I started Archery it was cheep and chearful, but I had worn the plunger, and decided to upgrade to one with a metal plunger. upon un-doing the grub screw to adjust it for one of the club bows the allen key head smoothed off. button on dead.

Second button. The one I replaced my first one with had a grub screw so soft that the thread of the button wore into the end of the grub screw and allowed the locking nut to turn, making consistancy impossible. Upon constant tightening in an effort to prevent the locking nut turning I eventually wore the allen key head smooth.

Third button. I decided to spend a bit more to get a micro adjustable one, also in the hope it would be better made, I was adjusting it this weekend, and again grub screw wore smooth.

It is such a tiny part but without it the whole plunger is useless. Now ok I can be a bit of a thud when it comes to tightening nuts, but I have never had this problem with grub screws in other pursuits.

I am now trying to source two thin 5/16th UNC Nuts to make a locking Nut the old fashioned way, anyone know a good place to source imperial nuts?

Cheers, winge over

mik

No but they do sell very nice salted nuts at Asdas!!

Mjollnir · Haha

I thought I might get a less than sensible reply

I was expecting a different train of thought, than food nuts though

mik

haha! on a serious note i used to have a problem with screws etc coming loose on my compound, i got sick of having to check them before every shoot, eventually i used some blue loctite threadlock on them, this stopped them from moving but also enabled me to undo them when i wanted to, MAKE SURE YOU USE THE BLUE NOT THE RED OR THEY WILL BE FASTENED TIGHT FOREVER!
try this for some replacements..

http://www.thesitebox.com/Default.aspx

Mjollnir · Cheers mik

Cheers for the link mik, they don't sell Half nuts though. (need them thin)

Yeah most of my nuts are secured with loctight Blue, well the ones that aren't stripped every time. Oh the Joys of recurve

However, with the pressure button, as the adjustments are 1/8th of a turn at a time, loctight becomes impractical

Jabberwocky

Hi Mjollnir,

What make of buttons have you tried?

I have used the Shibuya button for years with no problem and at around £20 it is not too expensive.

Otherwise the Beiter button is the best button that I have ever used, completely reliable, and solid. Unfortunately it is rather expensive to say the least.

I have only ever has problems with buttons at the very cheap end of the market and for such a key piece of equipment it is well worth investing at least in the Shibuya button. The grub screws on these should not be overtightened they are so well made that you only need to pinch them up firmly. If they are still shaking loose after that then I would look for excessive vibration in your bow such as too low a bracing height and arrows that are too light/weak for the poundage you are shooting.

Hope this helps

Mjollnir · .

Hi Jabberwocky

Button 1 was something cheep, cartel I think something like that, cost about £10

Button two was a shibuya DX about £20

Button three was a sebastien Flute Alpha button £35

problem is not really the grub screw coming undone, but that the grub screw never seams to keep the locking nut secure. It is not made easier because I have an offside mounted flip rest, so there isn't surface all round for the locking nut to make contact with, therfore I have to make sure that I tighten the button in tight or vibration and the plunger action make the whole button come loose. but when I tighten up the button often the locking nut rotates and the button doesn't, therefore adjusting it. This is why I am thinking of getting a pair of 5/16th Nuts and go old school on a locking nut

Jabberwocky

Ah, that makes more sense now, I can see your problem. I personally don't like the offside mounted rests and prefer something simple like the W&W flip rest (which I have had the most success with) or the basic Hoyt plastic rest (with the curly bit trimmed off). The more complex rests just seem to have more bits that can go wrong with them and seem more awkward to setup. After all this game is complex enough without making it more complex. You may be lucky enough to find a slim nut that will do the job or be forced to grind one down to fit.

The only button I have seen used successfully with these rests is the Beiter one the main reason for this is the fact that it uses two grub screws to lock the depth adjustment nut in place, is made of much harder and better quality materials and comes with a plastic spanner to tighten it in place so you are straining the whole mechanism less but tightening it in the most effective way. But this is a bit on the expensive side if it does not work out for you.

Another trick (and I don't know how effective this will be because I have never tried it myself) is to use a thin spring washer between the rest and the button. That might just be enough to do the trick.

Mjollnir · .

I never got on with the Plastic rests, and as they wear replacing them at exactly the same position is fiddly at best.

I did look at and try the Win & win magnetic rest, I didn't like the idea that when the rest arm collapsed another bit of metal stuck out, all be it not that far, but that wasn't what eventually put me off. I don't know if it was just mine, but I found the magnet too powerful, the force required to collapse the arm actually made the rest have pressure button like effects on the arrow.

To be fair I have had no problems with the offside swing arm, initial setup is indeed a little fiddly but once it is done it is done, magnet strength adjustment is easy, and it works really well. In fact, most of my club have switched based on my experiences.

As you say, the beiter sounds like it does everything, Which was why I went for the Sebastien Flute Alpha button, as this appeared to do everything the Beiter did (only one grub screw though) and was £30 quid cheeper.

I suppose I could get the button in the right place, then using a second nut to mark the postition, red loctite the first nut in place and remove the second nut. That might do it

Since, I posted the first post I have managed to find a company that does UNF 5/16th thin nuts, but I have a feeling that I need UNC, not sure what the difference is though, I think it is thread angle?

Jabberwocky

Hi Mjollnir,

The difference between UNC and UNF put in very basic terms is that UNC is a coarser thread (Unified Coarse) and UNF is a fine thread (Unified Fine) the standard thread used for buttons is UNF

As for rests, it just goes to show that 'one mans meat is another mans poison' in this game. You have had the best results from rests that I don't trust or like and You hate rests that I trust implicitly. That is the problem with this sport, generally there are no wrong answers just different solutions.

Mjollnir · yeah

yeah, I have noticed that, which is why I am glad to have found a forum such as this. As I hark from a very small club, I have read every source I can find, but am missing the user experience touch. In my club I am often the guinea pig, I keep buying and trying different things till I am happy, then others follow suit, or use the bits I didn't like

It also doesn't help the peeps who run my club set this club up after a ten year break, and a lot has changed technology wise in ten years, so I am also learning and teachning new tech to our club

Oh cheers for the UNC/UNF advice I will order those thin nuts now

Grub screws

Haha

Cheers mik

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yeah