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| segolden |
For those interested in Japanese Kyudo...these two articles explain a lot and have good illustrations of equipment and shooting, including shot sequence:http://www.fightingarts.com/reading/article.php?id=393 http://www.fightingarts.com/reading/article.php?id=394 |
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| Robin Hood |
good links segolden very interesting
i've got a Jap bow with the two big bends in and 7 1/2 long cost me $200 bargin! and i have a book $70 for a kyudo book in english and shows and teachers you the basics good book. Cheers |
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| segolden |
 SteveB wanted an illustration of the shot sequence, best I have access to. Investigated a dojo quite a while back when we were new to Arizona, was almost like a Buddhist convent. Sensei was extremely nice, gave a demo for the visitors. Left after that, couldn't see myself ever splitting arrows on a regular basis like he did. Still like to have the bow despite that. 
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| Robin Hood |
it really is amazing watching them shoot (i watched a doco) and they really take their time and get right in to it good stuff | ||
| segolden |
We're so focused upon the arrow going the right place that Westerners don't see that it's not the object of the exercise. Be nice, though, if I could do it occasionally. 
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| Robin Hood |
i saw them them shooting and they just if hey miss the middel they go straight to the next arrow but if us westerners miss we complain about and blame something but ourselves, the way the japanese do it is mind not just physical and it is an art as well one of the oldest martial arts around. | ||
| segolden |
 Probably older than all of them, with the probable exception of wrestling. There's evidence that rice has been grown in Japan for over 6,000 years, and archery's a wee bit older than that.
The arrow in Kharmic philosophy is a symbol of action, as it is in Biblical scripture, difference being the intent (aim) that Eastern spiritualism puts upon it. The emphasis is on the archer (self), whereas in Western concepts, the stress is upon the result of the action. Both philosophies carry the idea that results reflect negatively or positively upon the self, but our tradition says that the action and its result can change the self as much as it can act upon the outside world, thus raising awareness. Eastern philosophy says that results can effect the self, but cannot be changed except by self-discipline, by suppressing the self. The arrow's flight matters only in that it reflects the subconscious in control of the body's function, while the mind becomes ever more detached from physical action through practice. It's no different from Tibetan or Gregorian chanting. 
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| Bushy |
How the hell can they draw up like that and still be accurate at the target I've heard of use the force but that is rediculous bet its fun though knowing my luck if I tried it I would break the bow | ||
| Robin Hood |
the bow is nearly imposible to brake by drawing, i've pulled my yumi back to 45inch and didn't break (not with my darw length) they are extrmealy powerful if you get a good one and if your good extremly accurete to and cant shoot a arrow further than the longbow! in the medieval times. | ||
| segolden |
It flexes so well because the yumi is one of the oldest composite designs. Between eight and twelve layers of woods and bamboos are used, some even along the sides of the bow and surrounding the core. Nearly the same construction was used in Phaeronic Egypt for chariot archers' bows which, along with tomb pictographs, tends to show that such technology was an import from the East, at very least a Semitic import along with iron-working and glass.
Of course, modern replicas and practice bows are constructed from fiberglass and wood/bamboo combinations, mostly for cost concerns. The overall design of the yumi lends itself to extreme bending without damage as is. The archer's form used is highly stylized and ritualistic, so it's very strenuous until months of repetitious practice has been devoted. The bows used by the master in the dojo I visited were too hard for even mid-level students to pull, yet the man didn't even shake when holding them at full draw.  Little wonder, since his practice-arrows weighed as much as the average ELB war-arrow.
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| Steve B |
Fascinating stuff segolden, I have never really thought about the fact that flow and self is more important about outcome, until I got my recurve and for some reason I know understand about self and when shooting the recurve I am not anywhere near as centred on the score, mind you being what I am I like to score (at archery you rude buggers)
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| segolden |
Weird place to be discussing philosophy, ain't it Steve? I started researching this when I began to seriously study Hebrew and Scripture. For some reason beyond me, both Eastern spiritual tracts and Biblical philosophy seem to be mirror images of each other, Yin and Yang if you will. The commonality in archery (as in any sport, really) is how they view human effort. Each emphasizes intent, but Eastern philosophy recognizes that effort, if channeled by a long period of mental and physical discipline, becomes so natural and "instinctive" that the result (the cast of the arrow in this case) is simply a part of the actual goal, self-perfection, and not the most important part.
Any professional athlete will point this phenomenon out, known these days by many names, such as "being in the groove". Their actions in competition become strangely smooth and unconscious, while their conscious minds barely notice their actions and the resulting scores. There is no physical process detectable to them at this point, it's as if the arrow just appears in the target by magic. This is Zen at its essence, revelation by simply being. Judeo-Christian philosophy casts such phenomena as the will of God, aimed at a particular result that ultimately ripples throughout the world, even the universe. The root meaning of the word for Scripture in Hebrew means "to shoot" as at a target. To "sin" means "to miss" the target. Again, repetition, study, discipline are the methods of improvement in seeking the goal of personal perfection. But personal perfection does not go far enough unless it influences others to do so through the arrows of right intention/action. To hit the target in this case means to improve both yourself and others' lives through unselfish/unselfconscious actions, Godly actions in His Image. Thus the action of hitting the target redounds to ourselves and spreads His will wherever that action is felt. This is why, in Jewish tradition, the best action is one that is completely natural, unconscious, and unrecognized by society.
Ye gods, did I write that? Clear as mud. 
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| Steve B |
clear as mud in a beer bottle but I understand what you are saying, it is an unfortunate fact of life that we are all basically motivated by results rather the actions used, but still if we keep on "chooglin" I am sure we will all get there
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| fred |
The Way Of The BowTwo years ago I did some work for a Japanese Gentelman,and we started to talk about bows and how to shoot them.This man made a triangle in his mind at the top he knocked the arrow down to the first angle drew the bow then aimed and when he got back to the top released.I have tried this with a recurve when practicing it is a great way to shoot you have total control.I have a bow bamboo given by this man instead of payment it is 60pounds at 32" arrow but if you focus your mind you hold nothing.Fred Hits Um Sum Times |
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| segolden |
Yeesh, Fred, you should patent that one! Made a huge difference in practice today. Little like snap-shooting combined with a mental clicker.
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| fred |
To Segolden,
The thing i did not say was so far I have only shot right 4 times.Now when i get this bow out the dogs hide under the bed the cat hide i the wardrobe. So far I have hit the tree the fence almost shoot my foot pulled my shoulder wrist and back I am getting there. Fred Hits Um Sum Times |
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| segolden |
Hey, I wrecked more arrows by missing when I was shooting compound than I ever have with a recurve; it was scary! My animals do the same as well.  We're all in the same boat, Fred. I'm researching Japanese shooting methods now, have to get back with you as you may have found something.
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| fred |
JAPANESE ARCHERYSteve I looked into this some time ago there are several differant styles I think it comes from Zen Buddists and Shinto, Bushido the way the warrior seishin tanren spiritual training there is also yugamae or preparedness you must feel the arrow and the bow inthe hand I may be wrong.Like most things in Traditional Japan the mind and style are all important.Fred Hits Um Sum Times[/i] |
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| segolden |
Oh yeah, that ought to please some people here, start on philosophy again! Seriously, that's how stylized Japanese archery's become, the mechanical facets have taken on spiritual overtones, little resembling the original object of putting an arrow into whatever game or enemy is required. As it was explained to me, Kyudo practitioners don't even see the arrow as they "aim" (if that's a proper description of what they do). The shaft is so far out of line with the eyes that it becomes a process similar to throwing a ball overhand. Is that something like what you've discovered, other than the spiritual aspects? 
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| fred |
Yes Steve the arrow is on the wrong side of the bow. The only way I can discribe it you shoot a lefthanded bow righthand simplistic maybe but it is the only way I can discribe it.If you can master the mechanics put in the way you shoot it is great to shoot.
Fred |
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| fred |
By the wayWatch for a posting that is coming complete with photosFred Hits Um Sum Times |
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| segolden |
Looking forward to that! Some of this seems to be a result of the glove used being so stiff that it has the same mechanical effect on the string as does a thumb ring, affecting the paradox so that an arrow has to rest on the right of the bow, opposite the western style, in order to be accurate. Found that out on my horsebow early on.
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