a story of woe !!

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welsharcherterry
Cub Poster

Posts: 5
No Commercial Interest
Location: MANCHESTER m8

Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:14 am Post subject: a story of woe !!

I hope others learn by my mistake, i bought my 10 y/o a bow from what seemed to be a reputable shop, phoned them up told them i would be there (saturday). So we arrived and they asked what style of bow?, i said nothing too complicated a recurve will do for a start. wood or aluminium riser ?, well the wood grain looked quite appealing so we settled for a wooden riser. Pull weight, (here it comes) can she pull that bow, so my daughter took the bow and pulled 22lb, that will do said the young assistant. Arrow length next, here pull this (no coaching technique). Spent £170, cant use the range if your buying a kit bow. Ok thanks. We attended a course at our local archery course and took the bow along for the first time, thank god that the coaches and the other expirienced members were on hand to advise. 1, draw weight too much for a child, bone growth could be damaged.shouldnt be pulling any more than 18lbs. 2, string too thick for the arrows, the nocks kept flying off. 3, arrows too short, incorrect draw length, taken at shop. We went to another shop, Aardvark archery who could not have been more helpful, they put everything right, advised us, even made us a new string and arrows (which my daughter found fasinating), A big thank you to Aardvark for their trully professional approach and help. Needless to say we wont be returning to the other shop ever again. This isnt so much of a gripe as a warning, take some one with you that is knowledgable or go to Aardvark. _________________ I want a longbow !!

Club: Assheton
Bow: Hoyte eclipse riser, Kap limbs
Sight:
Arrows: Eastern acc's
Accesories:

Liam
Admin

UK East Mids Area Rep (NFAS)

Posts: 6570
Archery Website Publisher
Location: AR HQ

Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:58 am Post subject:

Unfortunately there will always be the odd rogue out their willing to fleece us of our hard earned cash, and as much as it pains me to say it archery does have a few, saying that I dont think there are too many 'baduns' in our sport, any clues on the identity of who we need to avoid? _________________ Why not?

Club: Long Eaton Field Archers
Bow: Karel Osage Orange Hungarian Reflex Bow 50lb @ 28"
Sight: Not Brilliant
Arrows: Sitka Spruce 11/32's @ 31"
Accesories: 2 Funny gloves with not enough fingers on them

Mjollnir
Grand Master Bowman

Posts: 2707
Club Committee Member
Location: Cambridge

Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:52 am Post subject:

Liam wrote:

any clues on the identity of who we need to avoid?

I am surprised at that request, could get the site in a lot of trouble.

It is true though, even with shops that seam to have a good reputation it is always best to take someone knowledgeable. Our club has had significant problems with a shop (mentioning no names) that is big enough to have a full page ad in GNAS's magazine, and in a different (bigger) mainstream shop we were treated like cattle.

Having said the above though, most of the big players are big enough that you will always find someone who has had a bad experience.

_________________

My shoes are too tight, but it doesn’t matter, because I have forgotten how to dance.

Club: Cambus Archery Society
Bow: SF PRO riser, with SF Carbon limbs
Sight: Sure-Loc Quest-X
Arrows: Easton Navigator FMJ 460 spine
Accesories: Merlin Triad Stabilisers

jaselpool
Moderator

Outstanding Contribution Award Winner
Posts: 277
Trader/Retailer
Location: Wirral UK

Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:14 am Post subject:

Mjollnir wrote:

Liam wrote:

any clues on the identity of who we need to avoid?

Na disagree - anyone's statement on here is their own point of view. How else is anyone meant to review a retailer and warn others of their own experiences? I've always thought a retail reviews section is a good idea. Helps us retailers know how we can better things if we have feedback to base it off

I'm guessing the initials would be A and W?

Jase

_________________
TheLongbowShop.com

Club: Bebington Archers
Bow: English Longbow
Sight: Rubber band :D
Arrows: Woodies!
Accesories: Quiver, Bracer and glove

55lb Horsebow, 50lb Falco Flatbow

Mjollnir
Grand Master Bowman

Posts: 2707
Club Committee Member
Location: Cambridge

Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:53 am Post subject:

jaselpool wrote:

Na disagree - anyone's statement on here is their own point of view.

I personally view it in the same way.

Not wanting to get off topic here so I'll keep it brief.

It is viewed the same way as newspapers, we write articles and put them in print, the website allows those articles, if libellous then the "victim" can sue the website. Obviously if the original point can be proved then there is no problem but the onus is on the website to prove the story true not the other way round. Most forums don't want to take that risk and just make a blanket no libellous content rule.

In this instance I can tell there is very unlikely to be much evidence either way as to what was said/asked for at the time of purchase, so a generic warning message is about as risky as I thought this site would want to go, especially given that this is an archery site, and there is a reasonable chance that someone loyal to the store might be reading.

Having said I don't run the site, nor do I take the risk, so I will keep quiet.

_________________

My shoes are too tight, but it doesn’t matter, because I have forgotten how to dance.

Club: Cambus Archery Society
Bow: SF PRO riser, with SF Carbon limbs
Sight: Sure-Loc Quest-X
Arrows: Easton Navigator FMJ 460 spine
Accesories: Merlin Triad Stabilisers

Dawn
Global Moderator

Outstanding Contribution Award Winner
Posts: 4344
Club Committee Member
Location: Long Eaton, Derbyshire

Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:00 pm Post subject: Re: a story of woe !!

welsharcherterry wrote:

I hope others learn by my mistake, i bought my 10 y/o a bow from what seemed to be a reputable shop, phoned them up told them i would be there (saturday).
So we arrived and they asked what style of bow?, i said nothing too complicated a recurve
will do for a start.
wood or aluminium riser ?, well the wood grain looked quite appealing so we settled for a wooden riser.
Pull weight, (here it comes) can she pull that bow, so my daughter took the bow and pulled 22lb, that will do said the young assistant.
Arrow length next, here pull this (no coaching technique).
Spent £170, cant use the range if your buying a kit bow.
Ok thanks.
We attended a course at our local archery course and took the bow along for the first time, thank god that the coaches and the other expirienced members were on hand to advise.
1, draw weight too much for a child, bone growth could be damaged.shouldnt be pulling any more than 18lbs.
2, string too thick for the arrows, the nocks kept flying off.
3, arrows too short, incorrect draw length, taken at shop.
We went to another shop, Aardvark archery who could not have been more helpful,
they put everything right, advised us, even made us a new string and arrows (which my daughter found fasinating), A big thank you to Aardvark for their trully professional approach and help.
Needless to say we wont be returning to the other shop ever again.
This isnt so much of a gripe as a warning, take some one with you that is knowledgable or go to Aardvark.

Sorry to hear of a bad experience, I think most archery suppliers take the time to be sure that their customers are well set up and happy, but unfortunately there are the bad times

Hope you experience with Aardvark has proved there are good shops out there and other new archers can make an informed choice as to where they shop. It really is a good idea to take someone with you to add their advice when you first go but I know this isn't always possible.

But the best advice if possible is to do the beginners course before you buy and get advice from the coach

Hope all goes well now and look forward to hearing how your daughter gets on

_________________
aka Cherrie
Secretary Black Arrow Field Archery Club

Club: Black Arrow FAC & Duvelle Bowmen
Bow: Marksman KG1 with nice blue riser
Sight: need glasses to read
Arrows: ACC
Accesories: stabiliser

Samick AFB with wood & feather arrows

Liam
Admin

UK East Mids Area Rep (NFAS)

Posts: 6570
Archery Website Publisher
Location: AR HQ

Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 5:04 am Post subject:

Mjollnir wrote:

Liam wrote:

any clues on the identity of who we need to avoid?

I am surprised at that request, could get the site in a lot of trouble.

Good point MJ, appreciate the concern

We are after good and bad reviews, if we didn't allow bad reviews then would it be fair to allow good reviews?

All comments and opinions are that of the poster and not Archers Rest, myself and Steve B as admins do need to be careful in our postings though as that would probably be construed as AR's opinion.

I was only after a clue to the offending retailer and any full blown name drop would have been edited to a clue just to be on the safe side

_________________
Why not?

Ratfighter
Global Moderator

Posts: 739
Staff Shooter
Location: the Ratcave

Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 7:44 am Post subject:

I personally would never "rubbish" anywhere publically in writing. I can and do recommend places I would visit and keep silent about the places I wouldn't visit, unless stood in the tea tent queue with friends. I have had bad experiences from one of the most respected shops in the industry. A place that turns over thousands of happy customers a year and yet failed me badly on three separate and consecutive occasions. I have publically commented on my reticence to shop at a large midlands retailer due to their vague on line ordering system and my desire to put money into someone I know's bank account rather than someone I don't know's pocket. I have discussed my feelings with them on their ordering system and yet it still remains and I wouldn't say that my feelings would affect anyone's buying experience from them. I am truly sorry that someone new to our sport has tasted the "bows for bucks" side of the sport, it shouldn't happen but it does. With experience you will learn where to shop and develop a trust for the retailer. However, don't, as we did and take this blind trust for granted, even some of the best shop owners have mortgages and the temptation becomes quite great to move that sight, that scope or that bow to keep the bank manager happy. In the end, the majority of my purchases happen at a popular factory outlet in Leicestershire. I have yet to feel any pressure to buy anything I don't need and always get the best advice even if it includes putting my credit card back in my wallet and trying to learn to do it properly _________________ MERLIN ARCHERY CLUB GETTING RATTIER BY THE MINUTE

Club: Merlin Archery Club
Bow: Merlin XS x2
Sight: Axcel 3000 Viper Scope
Arrows: Navigators & Gold Tip Ultralight Pro's
Accesories: Apollo launcher, CC Porter release, Merlin Triad stabiliser

Bows now sporting my own strings!!!! yummy!!

fred
Grand Master Bowman

Posts: 1654
Trader/Retailer
Location: Kidderminster Worcs

Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:06 pm Post subject:

TO Welsharcherterry Before you buy anything else there are some good Traders an this web-site who will give you all the imfo you need FREE next time ask Fred Sorry you had a bad experiance with Traders there are some who a more bothered about your money then what you really need.

Club: Die Hard Archers
Bow: KG 1
Sight: none
Arrows: matched wooden
Accesories: none

sunmouse
Junior Poster

Posts: 63
No Commercial Interest
Location: Rhondda, S Wales

Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:45 pm Post subject:

Sorry to hear about your bad experience! Me and my partner went to Quicks in Sapcote when we were on holiday (en route from Derbyshire to Stratford) and found the staff very knowledgeable, particularly when I bought my new bow. I had to try it out on the shop's range to get a proper idea of draw-weights and have had no problems, either with the arrows which Quicks made up for me or the bow itself, which is a Samick beginners recurve. Unlike my partner, I found the longbow quite difficult to get into, but have tried shooting on my partner's bickerstaffe bow, although the draw-weight is more than I can comfortably draw. I hope in the near future to try out the longbow proper and get one of my own (but not yet). I would recommend Quicks, simply because they know what they're doing but I also go to an archery shop in Llantrisant in S Wales and the owner is an experienced archer and has just advised my partner against buying a recurve bow until he has shot one on the beginners' course. The other archery shop in Llantrisant often has people from other clubs in it, talking and has been very good for archery contacts.

Club: Blandy Jenkins
Bow: Win and Win Pro Accent & Samick Agulla
Sight: Shooter and Arten Olympic and Shibuya dual click
Arrows: Easton 1813 Plat plus and Easton 1616 blues
Accesories: KAP limbs

Bickerstaffe and Ash self bow.

fred
Grand Master Bowman

Posts: 1654
Trader/Retailer
Location: Kidderminster Worcs

Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 10:12 pm Post subject:

Try this 12 months ago a gentleman wife to kids turned up at my door they wanted some wooden arrows. Everyone had top of the range hoyt bows top quality hand made leather quivers.Got out some practices arrows different lengths and weights.I said what are you looking for, the best wght spine matched and barrelled.For the kids too I said of course he said these will cost you £125 a set no problem,they then shot 12 arrows each at 15 mtrs they put 1 arrow an the boss.I said how long have you been shooting the guy rubbed his face then said about 6 months.Mate you are wasting your money come back to me when you can put 3 arrows in a 6" circle at 25 mtrs 9 times out of ten then these arrows will make the differance.No I want these arrows look sir I said I have a reputation and I will not rob you I will you make make you a bog standard set use those until you can shoot your bow I want these best type.I made them he gose away happy I was not ,(now the punch line) Five weeks later I saw him a shoot they were all shooting carbon arrows he comes straight over glad I saw you we need some more arrows we have lost are broken the others.Now I could have ripped off this guy but I did not I said at the moment I have to much work ring me this guy rings me every month even when I was ill in the end my son told him to go forth and multiply.There are some A****S in business who think only about money there is always another sucker round the corner thank god the are a few good people in business Fred

Club: Die Hard Archers
Bow: KG 1
Sight: none
Arrows: matched wooden
Accesories: none

sunmouse
Junior Poster

Posts: 63
No Commercial Interest
Location: Rhondda, S Wales

Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:54 pm Post subject:

Hi Welsharcherterry, I'd like to add to earlier comments - as you are in Wales (presumably) you might like to try "Wales Archery Specialists" Crick Manor, Crick near Caldicot. I spent several hours there selecting a new recurve bow. They were extremely patient and very knowledgeable about their equipment. They guided me through the selection process without pushing me towards more expensive models and made loads of helpful suggestions. They took the time to help me decide what was right for me by getting me to shoot different risers and limbs with different draw weights and so on. Needless to say i will be doing much more business with them. I hope this plug doesn't infringe any forum rules - I have no connection with the shop. All the best, Sunmouse (Phil)