Buying from the USA

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Old Beginner
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Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:28 pm Post subject: Buying from the USA

At the risk of upsetting everyone, I have been doing a lot of web surfing and came across a good site, others may well know it, Hunters Friend, somwehere in the wilds of the US. They have some very useful if technical explanations about compounds which I think I want to try quite soon after being "approved". They offer complete packages which are set up professionally and I calculate that even with VAT, customs and carriage from USA to UK, the value is great. So far I see compounds in UK sites and shops all seem to be at c£600, then add all the arrows and bits. They could supply what appears to be good brands, though some not known in UK, for a lot less, ie $600 for complete package, add vat etc and still comes out at about £450. But as my handle suggests I am new to Archery (but wise in good deals !) So any comments or experiences would be much appreciated. I understand the value of a local shop, I have been down to Merlin but saving £300 plus is not to be ignored.

Club: Pines Park Archers
Bow: Merlin Vision
Sight: Trophy Ridge Pyro
Arrows: Easton Lite Speed 500
Accesories: Truball end on mongoose strap rist release

kirk
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Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:51 pm Post subject:

Hi OB I have had a few bows from the USA, but they were private sales on forums etc. The last one arrived in four days from north Dakota. If your buying from a store make sure they are reputable, I have heard stories of folk parting with money and then waiting months for the bow to arrive. Check out the USA part of Ebay, some good deals on there, but once again be careful who your dealing with. As you say your wise in good deals, so if you do your research you should be fine. Good luck PS check out the classified section on here. _________________ JUST SHOOT IT Owlethall Bowmen Secretary

Club: Owlethall Bowmen
Bow: Mathews Conqest 3...Hoyt GameMaster Hybrid...Kota TD AFB
Sight: Apex five pin
Arrows: Easton Maxum...SS XX78 2213 - Gamegetter 1816 - redline carbons
Accesories: sims products

Ratfighter
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Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:36 pm Post subject:

I would agree that with the $ £ exchange rate, it is very attractive to buy from the states. I have made many many purchases from the US and been very happy. My one bad experience was buying a bow. I paid £300 for a Martin. £35 for the shipping and handling. £335 isn't too bad for a bow. It took a few weeks to arrive due to waiting for a set of cam modules. When it did. I was hit for the VAT on the total amount AND Parcelforces own take for kindly getting my bow through customs. I paid and extra £68 on the total. Of course the real bum part was that I couldn't draw the bow back at 60lb as the draw cycle was too harsh and the whole lot went on EBAY and sold for £150, a loss of £250 on the deal. Yes the £ for £ doesn't add up when buying from a UK shop, but you do get a bow that you can shoot, set up for you, how you need it AND if it breaks you have the ability to bring it back and get it fixed. No hours of fun on the phone, before shipping it back to the States (at your cost) and then paying the import duty on something you already own. Sometimes the benefit of paying that bit more outweighs the benfit of money saved. Now if it was a set of arrows, a release or one of the many things that don't require the "personal" touch I would definitely say, buy from the States. But something as individual as a bow, can't truly be set up for you by someone 2500 miles away. ps I just had a trawl through Hunters Friend and to be honest a comparable bow to a current range Merlin is well over the $600 you mention. If Merlin is out fo your price range, you may wish to consider something from the Diamond range (bowtech subsuduary) or the Mission range (Mathews Subsiduary). Both ranges offer bow in the £200 - £400 price range _________________ MERLIN ARCHERY CLUB GETTING RATTIER BY THE MINUTE

Club: Merlin Archery Club
Bow: Merlin XS x2
Sight: Axcel 3000 Viper Scope
Arrows: Navigators & Gold Tip Ultralight Pro's
Accesories: Apollo launcher, CC Porter release, Merlin Triad stabiliser

Bows now sporting my own strings!!!! yummy!!

Old Beginner
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Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:27 am Post subject:

Thanks, its not the affordability especially, I would pay £600 if its right just don't like paying more than I should. What confuses me is whats the difference in a £300 or £600 or £1200 bow ? I assume like lots of goods very cheap is just that ......but then law of diminishing returns sets in ............ie 600 is not twice as good as 300 and 1200 may be only 10% or less better than 600 ? I suspect I won't be a champion bowmaster just want to enjoy and I feel that having your own gear you can get used to, is better although many people say buy a cheap one first, that seems logical in some ways, but I wouldn't buy an old banger of a car in preference to a more modern better specified one I could afford and would be happy with, though I may not buy the Ferrari first or indeed anytime ! So what is the difference with the American ones around the $400-600 mark with the higher priced $1200 ? Lastly, and thanks for your patience,.................. how do you get a choice, its seems bow shops like car dealers only offer a limited range so I can't get a Volvo from a Ford dealer, though of course Ford own Volvo, is this the same with bows, ie the top brands have a second name and does this get the same technology ? So many questions..........so little time

Club: Pines Park Archers
Bow: Merlin Vision
Sight: Trophy Ridge Pyro
Arrows: Easton Lite Speed 500
Accesories: Truball end on mongoose strap rist release

Dawn
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Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:03 pm Post subject:

Best if you try as many bows as you can before you buy. If you liken it to buying a car, all look basically the same but you can get into one and feel quite comfortable with it, and get into another and you can't explain why but you just don't get on with it, its not for you. Same applies to bows, I would suggest get as much information and try as many different bows as you can As you say just because it costs more does not mean it will be that much better, but it could be for you if you see what I mean _________________ aka Cherrie Secretary Black Arrow Field Archery Club

Club: Black Arrow FAC & Duvelle Bowmen
Bow: Marksman KG1 with nice blue riser
Sight: need glasses to read
Arrows: ACC
Accesories: stabiliser

Samick AFB with wood & feather arrows

Ratfighter
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Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:24 pm Post subject:

Dawn wrote:

Best if you try as many bows as you can before you buy.

If you liken it to buying a car, all look basically the same but you can get into one and feel quite comfortable with it, and get into another and you can't explain why but you just don't get on with it, its not for you.

Same applies to bows, I would suggest get as much information and try as many different bows as you can

As you say just because it costs more does not mean it will be that much better, but it could be for you if you see what I mean

Good answer Dawn. I like analogies.
Nope you definitely don't get twice as much bow for your money and even when you do think you have an idea what you are doing you still make mistakes (would you like to buy a low mileage Prestige).
At this moment it is difficult to know what you want or need from a bow, therefore the choice is less obvious.
Compounds differ greatly from recurves. A recurve has been developed, refined, experimented on over thousands of years and now they all pretty much boil down to one formula. How tall are you, how long are you in the arm and how much do you want to pay. it really is that simple, evolution has sorted the rest out. There are of course brand loyalties and the finer touches that provide a diverse recurve market but that, in my opinion is it.
Compounds have been around for a handful of decades, even the manufacturers can't decide what is best, with the majority rotating through all variations of axle length, reflex, deflex, solid limbs, split limbs, one cam two, cam one and half cams, binary cams. They can't even agree what sort of string and cable set up is the best. And then it gets more confusing when you throw in flat limbed bows, nearly flat and conventional. That is why the number of choices are so confusing. You need to understand what you want from the bow, Target? Field? a bit of both?
Target usually lends itself to a longer axle length bow, but this again can be affected by drawlength, certainly a short bow can be more twitchy but this can be corrected with stabilisation
Field requires speed and this usually lends itself to a shorter length bow, but if you have a long draw length, this is negated as there is a speed limit that most medium length bows can easily achieve.
If you want to shoot a bit of both, then you are looking to trade a bit of speed and a bit of stability.

Then there is the brace height factor, the longer the arrow is on the string, the more power imparted and the increased opportunity to affect the shot, again, another trade off.

If you wish to shoot off your fingers, then string angle can be a factor, short axle bows can give finger pinch, making them a pain to shoot

The one area with the least impact, in my opinion is the cam. They pretty much all do the same job, the twin cam is fast but harder to keep in tune and can be harsher to draw, the solocam is typically the slowest (but hardly noticeable) and is nicer to draw. The binary system is giving rise to some ridiculous speeds as it is 2 solocams slaved together but again speed comes at a price and having watched a number of owners draw, that last inch looks a real bugger.

Many people get tripped up into the brand loyalty thing, you'll always read "Martin for life" "Bowtech forever" etc (they all have the slogans). I personally think this is a bit daft as you can take yourself down a big blind alley, so make sure the information and advice you are given isn't influenced by this attitude. Yes most records, most champions, the most money is won by Hoyt and Mathews shooters and the shooting lines are filled to capacity with Hoyt and Mathews owners. But how many of these champions were given the bows to shoot? I bet you a pound to a penny that the worlds best could make a lump of balsa tied to an elastic band perform better than I could make a top range bow perform, so don't be fooled by that like so many.

As this is getting long winded I'll wrap it up with what I look for in a bow, after spending many thousands trying to find out.
I am a release shooter,with a 27 3/4" draw length. I'm not the most steadiest on the shot but I can pull back 60lb all day long if I have to. I shoot target and field and can't get my head around shooting 2 different model bows (took 4 months to work that one out this year.) So I need a compromise bow, I don't need flat out speed as I can make the 300 fps max for field. I am in the mid range of draw lengths, and need stability.
My wishlist is therefore.
33"-35" axle length
7"-8" brace height
320fps IBO rating
A good guarantee and dealer back up.
I shot a Hoyt, which I totally didn't enjoy but kept going back to because it got me the results.
I shot a couple of Mathews, which I totally enjoyed shooting but couldn't get me the results.
And I couldn't even draw the Martin back!
I had two goes with Merlins but to be brutally honest, I had a few equipment issues in 2007 but went back like a lamb with cap in hand, if sheep wear hats, to Merlin because I just couldn't get a bow to shoot the way my XS did. The design improvements have completely dealt with the issue that sent me on a long and expensive road of brand discovery and there is a lot of peace of mind knowing that the guarantee is a 30 minute drive away.

Finally I would say, there is no bow worth over £600 and the quality difference is negligible between all the brands. a £400 bow isn't 50% worse than a £600 one. what is important is getting equipment that suits you. If it is a £400 bow so what, if it is a £650 so what. Don't let finance put a cap on your performance in either direction if you see what I mean. You wouldn't wear hobnail boots to run a marathon, but you wouldn't wear Nike's down the pit either.

_________________
MERLIN ARCHERY CLUB

GETTING RATTIER BY THE MINUTE

Old Beginner
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Location: Nottingham

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:37 pm Post subject:

Thnaks for the good advice, though unsure how you get to try lots of different compounds given they need some setting up and the limited range of places to go. I have now, after some coaching, discovered I need a LH anyway so that also makes it more difficult. I feel some trips round various bow shops an option, maybe the attitude and helpfullness will also be a factor, as well as what feels right.................whic h seems to be the main lesson..................................travelling hopefully.

Club: Pines Park Archers
Bow: Merlin Vision
Sight: Trophy Ridge Pyro
Arrows: Easton Lite Speed 500
Accesories: Truball end on mongoose strap rist release

Liam
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Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:20 pm Post subject:

OB, most reputable dealers will set a bow up for you no problem with no obligation, I have had this done for me at CBS, Merlin, Quicks & Bowsports, all within an hour (ish) of Nottingham. _________________ Why not?

Club: Long Eaton Field Archers
Bow: Karel Osage Orange Hungarian Reflex Bow 50lb @ 28"
Sight: Not Brilliant
Arrows: Sitka Spruce 11/32's @ 31"
Accesories: 2 Funny gloves with not enough fingers on them

Ratfighter
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:58 am Post subject:

[quote="Old Beginner"]Thnaks for the good advice, though unsure how you get to try lots of different compounds given they need some setting up and the limited range of places to go. quote] To be quite honest, the numbe rof bows you need to try will not be as many as you think. For a start, no one would shoot a bow they don't like the look of, or quite obviously doesn't suit the requirements. Then a simple pull test can often discount a bow. I don't like the feel of cams that start hard and I like a solid wall with a short valley, which means I like the cam to build up progressively and come to a dead stop that I can pull hard against but if I relax slightly the bow lets me know. This discounts 80% letoff and a number of the really fast bows. So as a rule this limits me to three or four choices. Of course the problem for any beginner is knowing what they like and this does take time and cost money. If you can give me an idea of what you are looking to do with your archery and your bow requirements draw length, poundage, I could give a few indicators for what I would look to but in the end it is your decision, what you go with. _________________ MERLIN ARCHERY CLUB GETTING RATTIER BY THE MINUTE

BTS
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Location: Nottingham England

Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:46 pm Post subject:

You could try one of Merlin's TM range bows, about £300. Good starter bow, will shoot as accurately as you could want it to. If you take to compound, they will give you a good trade in against one of their top line bows, which will compare with any USA bows in performance. _________________ BAZZ

Club: Burton Joyce Archers & Black Arrow FAC
Bow: OK Match + Merlin TM5 Comp..
Sight: K Sight + Toxonics 1400
Arrows: X7's & AFC Exacta+ Easton 3-28/500 A/C/C's
Accesories: all sorts

old KG1 in cupboard bottom!

Old Beginner
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Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:17 pm Post subject:

Thanks everyone, I am in discussion with Merlin and will probably get a bow from them soon, they are setting one up which seems fine and will do for some time hopefully

Club: Pines Park Archers
Bow: Merlin Vision
Sight: Trophy Ridge Pyro
Arrows: Easton Lite Speed 500
Accesories: Truball end on mongoose strap rist release

sambow
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Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:13 am Post subject:

If you do buy from USA watch out for customs. If they clock it you will pay VAT on all items over £18 + DUTY on all items over £38 (they add the postage to the item price for calculations!!!!). PLUS if they impound your item it takes an eternity to get though, and they are very difficult to contact to get hold of. I have first hand experience. I recently bought a £106 item and ended up paying £132 plus waiting 3 weeks for it to clear UK customs. Also be careful buyer doesn't mark up the price. I have heard of someone putting the customs value of a £60 item down as £120 (presumably to claim insurance in the case of loss) But the buyer had to pay VAT and Duty on the £120 OUCH!

Club: Rugby Bowmen
Bow: Merlin Supernova, Hoyt Protec
Sight: Challenger
Arrows: Carbon Impact
Accesories: Truball BT Gold & Carter Insatiable