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A Demonstration

 
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segolden
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Location: Willcox, Arizona, USA


PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:59 pm    Post subject: A Demonstration Reply with quote

There's been quite a lot of discussion about the power of the longbow recently, on TV, in books and on this site. I myself participated in one such demonstration a few years back, which I'll refrain from repeating here as it really wasn't very conclusive. Neither have been most of the demos on the little screen, despite their pretenses at being "historically accurate". Anybody who has drawn an English warbow or seen it done can testify of this.

Having said that, I was interested to be reading up on the history of early English colonies in America, and running across an incident in Jamestown that is illustrative of just how "inferior" archery was (NOT) compared to firearms of the era.

The colonials had a running spat with the local Indians going for most of the life of the settlement, the only things really allowing them to survive being that a severe drought and epidemics had severely reduced the native population in the area. There were times when the colonists were confined to their homes within the palisade, either by hunger, illness or harassment by the tribes.

During one of these stints, a dummy on a pole was put up over the outer wall, dressed in chest plate armor and stuffed with rags, as a taunt against the Indian archers who generally stayed just out of musket range. The settlers were stunned when one Indian stood up to the challenge and drove his arrow a foot through the dummy, despite its being pistol-ball proof. Figuring that this might lead to an all-out attack, the locals having been shown that English armor wasn't up to a battle, the colonials rebuilt the dummy with scrap steel and put it up on the wall once more. The jeering Indians went silent for a moment as another arrow, instead of penetrating, shattered against the plate. The archer himself cursed the settlers mightily, both for wrecking one of his arrows and for cheating in a fair contest. Not that it made any difference in the on-again/off-again warfare, as the tribes weren't about to attack the settlement anyway, their style of combat being raid and snipe, and their numbers would never allow such wholesale battle by that time. Things continued as before.

This kind of equality between armaments was to go on through the mid-nineteenth century, when the first repeating firearms (ala Sam Colt) hit the frontier, and finally rendered the bow obsolete as a means of warfare for the Indian tribes. It was actually disease that enabled Europeans to establish themselves in the Americas, and their growing numbers fell upon the devastated natives like a slow tidal wave. The Indians fought on and survived as independent cultures only as long as industry took to provide Europeans with the final technological nail in their coffins.


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kirk
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting read Steve.

I too wonder sometimes about the validity of so called experts claims.
I once read how a Mongolian horse archer could hit a tea cup at 150 yards, i wonder if they where the one's they have in Disneyland's Alice in wonderland world.

As for warbows, i once tried to draw and shoot a 70# longbow, the audible crack from my joints sickened me.


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segolden
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Location: Willcox, Arizona, USA


PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't even get close to 70#, and 50# makes the pins in my bow arm ache if I shoot too much. Better than I used to be, though, started at 30# and that hurt too.

Having watched Korean Traditional archers practicing at 170 yards, they do pretty well to hit a man-sized target (3X3 feet bullseye) at that range, but their groups look surprisingly small anyway. Sioux Indians could shoot a bison's heart from a horse at gallop, which is no small feat even if the animal was within rock-throwing distance. So, if certain people like Byron Ferguson can actually shoot aspirin tablets out of the air, it just shows that "experts" who are out to deflate certain historical myths need to choose their subjects more carefully.


_________________
"For I have drawn Judah taut and applied [My hand] to Ephraim as to a bow." Zech. 9:13
http://www.freenations.freeuk.com/
http://www.melaniephillips.com/



Club: none
Bow: Quinn Comet XL, Grozer Horsebow, KG ELB, Two Rivers R/D
Sight: DAS Kinetic SRF
Arrows: Easton X7 Eclipse 1916's, GT XT Hunter 3555's
Accesories: Sims SRS stab, enhancer & Limbsavers; Dawgware side-quiver

Awaiting MBLLC Phoenix bow

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alanesq
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kirk wrote:
As for warbows, i once tried to draw and shoot a 70# longbow, the audible crack from my joints sickened me.


The technique for pulling a warbow is a completely different thing to a Victorian bow
also they are drawn further (i.e. to the ear)

if you had a bow 70lb at 32" and someone to show you how you would have no problem at all shooting it




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segolden
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you know of any video demonstrating the technique, we'd love to see it here.


_________________
"For I have drawn Judah taut and applied [My hand] to Ephraim as to a bow." Zech. 9:13
http://www.freenations.freeuk.com/
http://www.melaniephillips.com/



Club: none
Bow: Quinn Comet XL, Grozer Horsebow, KG ELB, Two Rivers R/D
Sight: DAS Kinetic SRF
Arrows: Easton X7 Eclipse 1916's, GT XT Hunter 3555's
Accesories: Sims SRS stab, enhancer & Limbsavers; Dawgware side-quiver

Awaiting MBLLC Phoenix bow

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Liam
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dypwMBbHkkU

Couldnt vouch for the accuracy of the technique as I know nothing about warbows but it looks good


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segolden
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Posts: 2410
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They certainly make it LOOK easy enough. When the rain stops we'll have to try this out, minus the muscles and heavy draw weight of course.


_________________
"For I have drawn Judah taut and applied [My hand] to Ephraim as to a bow." Zech. 9:13
http://www.freenations.freeuk.com/
http://www.melaniephillips.com/



Club: none
Bow: Quinn Comet XL, Grozer Horsebow, KG ELB, Two Rivers R/D
Sight: DAS Kinetic SRF
Arrows: Easton X7 Eclipse 1916's, GT XT Hunter 3555's
Accesories: Sims SRS stab, enhancer & Limbsavers; Dawgware side-quiver

Awaiting MBLLC Phoenix bow

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alanesq
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Posts: 32
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Location: Nottingham, UK


PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its difficult to see in a video how its done
I tend to liken it to imagining you are trying to pull the bars apart in a cage

This video is well worth a look
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NbGAIoEYHI
There are some really heavy bows being shot here and I think you can see better how you can really get some force into pulling bows like this getting your whole body into it

If any of you go to the Pickwick shoots (UK) if you track me down I usually have my 80lb bow with me and you are welcome to give it a try




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